3 ms·

5-8 beers, 2-5 nights a week is a ton. This is not typical for most drinkers. That's up to 40 beers a week. 5+ drinks in a row is the definition of binge dri

by dpark 7y ago

5-8 beers, 2-5 nights a week is a ton. This is not typical for most drinkers. That's up to 40 beers a week. 5+ drinks in a row is the definition of binge drinking. https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/binge-drinking.htm https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/binge-drinking.htm "One in six US adults binge drinks about four times a month" Your "normal" is as many nights per week as the CDC claims per month, and the CDC claims this for only 17% of the population. Put another way, your "normal" is 4x as often and at least 3x more common than reality. If you're hanging out with people drinking this much all the time, then you may have normalized it, but it's absolutely not normal for "much of the US".

abstractbarista 7y ago
Simply put, what the government describes as normal (or ideal) is far different than what the alcohol-consuming populace considers normal. (Side thought: Some of the risks in that article are suspect. STDs and domestic violence? Those are reflections of the individuals using the drug, not the drug itself.)
- dpark 7y ago
  This isn’t the case of the CDC describing what should be normal. I quoted a statistic about actual consumption to contrast the anecdotal claim that binge drinking up to 5 times/week is “typical”. Now, if you don’t like the standard definition of “binge drinking” that’s fine. 40 beers/week is still very, very far from typical. Edit: I don't find the risks to be particularly suspect. Drinking lowers inhibitions and reduces ability to engage in critical thinking. Drunk people regularly do stuff they regret later, ranging from saying embarrassing things to driving intoxicated to getting into physical fights with strangers, friends, and partners. Certainly the person having unprotected sex or assaulting their partner is responsible for their actions, but alcohol also makes those actions more likely.
  - abstractbarista 7y ago
    Certainly agree that 5x a week isn't normal or generally healthy. Risk-takers and mean people are more commonly heavy consumers of alcohol. They like the feeling as it eggs them on and self-justifies their actions. But this does not mean that heavy consumers of alcohol are uncontrollably pushed to emulate the former. Basically, the bad folks always ruin it for the docile rest of us.
    - dpark 7y ago
      > Basically, the bad folks always ruin it for the docile rest of us. To some extent, yes. But those who want to normalize and justify their drinking also wish to absolve alcohol of all association with these things even though alcohol absolutely increases their incidence. You see the same bias in people who want to believe that drinking moderately is healthier than abstaining. There's nothing actually supporting this, but the few flawed studies that show some minor benefit get published over and over in the news because it's what people want to hear. In reality once you filter out people who abstain specifically because of their health, all cause mortality goes up with any level of drinking.
  - P_I_Staker 7y ago
    I was leaving plenty of room on the high end. In much of the USA, people would not be shocked by a young person who exhibited these behaviors, unless you mapped it out for them (then it starts to sink in). I guess there's some poor choice of words here. What was meant is "not abnormal or troubling" to much of the population. > 40 beers/week is still very, very far from typical. I don't know that it's as far as you think. I based much of my comment on a documentary from the UK that matches my observations. The guy found when he actually counted correctly he was over 100 units (~30-50 beers), yet no one considered him an alcoholic. I've noticed similar trends if you look at "social drinkers" and do accurate counting. 100% agree about the risk factors being reasonable. You're more likely to be the victim and perpetrator of crime, or be injured.
- P_I_Staker 7y ago
  Well put. I should have specified that I was talking about people who drink regularly. Looking at large populations aren't that useful here, as many people simply opt out, because they're sick, religion, or just don't like it. While I agree that the some of the risks are suspect, I tend to think the question is "how much risk are you willing to accept"? IMO it's appropriate to consider things like STDs, injury, violence, abuse, and incarceration as risks. These problems are common among drinkers due to the heavy impairment alcohol causes.
P_I_Staker 7y ago
I'm well aware that this isn't healthy, but it is the norm within much of the US. There was some unfortunate use of "most" and "much". However, the point is that this type of behavior is extremely normalized. The cited percentages don't mean much to me, except I will take your point that I should have used words more carefully. 17% might sound tiny, but I don't think it makes much sense to look at the total population here. There are quite a few people who don't drink at all, or very little (to the point that I wouldn't call them "drinkers"). I should have specified that the populations I'm looking at are 18-35 year old "drinkers". The cited behavior wouldn't be shocking at all within this group, and would absolutely be considered normal. The problem is somewhat masked by the fact 16 oz or larger beers are common these days. From what I've heard CA/UK/AU isn't doing much better. I'd highly recommend the documentary "Drinkers like me". It features a middle aged man in UK, who's not considered an alcoholic by friends slow realization, that his drinking might not be as moderate as he thinks; and that society may normalize alcohol abuse.
- dpark 7y ago
  > 17% might sound tiny, but I don't think it makes much sense to look at the total population here. It's not just the population, though. Your binge frequency is 4 times higher than that of the CDC report, meaning that you're really discussing some population much smaller than 17%. My guess is that you're probably covering about 5% of population with your example. Even when I was in college this wasn't normal. There were certainly people who drank this much, and given the frequency of binge drinking, they could fit in without being so obvious. But people who admitted to drinking a case of beer a week were very rare.
  - P_I_Staker 7y ago
    5% is one out of twenty people. That's not very rare, when you consider these things tend to have a lopsided distribution. You have to be careful with statistics, because in our minds numbers like 5-17% are minuscule, but the reality is that's not uncommon. If you were to consider this drinking pattern a disease (we'll call it "borderline alcohol abuse"), it would be considered "very common", since there are over 3 million cases (16 million +) > Your binge frequency is 4 times higher than that of the CDC report I think you're exaggerating a bit. I present a wide range and you're focusing on the highest end of it. The low end would be much more reasonable, though not completely healthy. > But people who admitted to drinking a case of beer a week were very rare. That's kinda the point. People aren't admitting it or being realistic with how much they drink (I'd be willing to bet these statistics are low also). A guy in the UK started counting and was over 100 units (~30-50 beers). Nobody thought he was an alcoholic at all. It's just a bit of fun social drinking. Of course you're gonna go out with boys after your beer league hockey game (where you had 1-3 beers in the locker room), later in the week there's trivia, and you have to go to Mark's party. Oh, and you like to have a beer or two with the game (forgetting you frequently grab 3). After a stressful day of work you have a drink or two, so what? In my experience, this kind of behavior is totally normalized; I'm not the first person to notice.
pmart123 7y ago
For what it is worth, I would guess most people under report their drink totals to surveys. Also, just using the following link: https://www.alcohol.org/bac-calculator/ https://www.alcohol.org/bac-calculator/ BAC can range greatly depending on size and gender. For a 200 pound guy, seven beers over three hours is close in BAC to four for a 120 pound woman. Age I would guess is also a factor. Three drinks would definitely would have a much larger effect on my in my thirties versus in my early twenties.

by dpark 7y ago

abstractbarista 7y ago

Simply put, what the government describes as normal (or ideal) is far different than what the alcohol-consuming populace considers normal. (Side thought: Some of the risks in that article are suspect. STDs and domestic violence? Those are reflections of the individuals using the drug, not the drug itself.)

dpark 7y ago
This isn’t the case of the CDC describing what should be normal. I quoted a statistic about actual consumption to contrast the anecdotal claim that binge drinking up to 5 times/week is “typical”. Now, if you don’t like the standard definition of “binge drinking” that’s fine. 40 beers/week is still very, very far from typical. Edit: I don't find the risks to be particularly suspect. Drinking lowers inhibitions and reduces ability to engage in critical thinking. Drunk people regularly do stuff they regret later, ranging from saying embarrassing things to driving intoxicated to getting into physical fights with strangers, friends, and partners. Certainly the person having unprotected sex or assaulting their partner is responsible for their actions, but alcohol also makes those actions more likely.
- abstractbarista 7y ago
  Certainly agree that 5x a week isn't normal or generally healthy. Risk-takers and mean people are more commonly heavy consumers of alcohol. They like the feeling as it eggs them on and self-justifies their actions. But this does not mean that heavy consumers of alcohol are uncontrollably pushed to emulate the former. Basically, the bad folks always ruin it for the docile rest of us.
  - dpark 7y ago
    > Basically, the bad folks always ruin it for the docile rest of us. To some extent, yes. But those who want to normalize and justify their drinking also wish to absolve alcohol of all association with these things even though alcohol absolutely increases their incidence. You see the same bias in people who want to believe that drinking moderately is healthier than abstaining. There's nothing actually supporting this, but the few flawed studies that show some minor benefit get published over and over in the news because it's what people want to hear. In reality once you filter out people who abstain specifically because of their health, all cause mortality goes up with any level of drinking.
- P_I_Staker 7y ago
  I was leaving plenty of room on the high end. In much of the USA, people would not be shocked by a young person who exhibited these behaviors, unless you mapped it out for them (then it starts to sink in). I guess there's some poor choice of words here. What was meant is "not abnormal or troubling" to much of the population. > 40 beers/week is still very, very far from typical. I don't know that it's as far as you think. I based much of my comment on a documentary from the UK that matches my observations. The guy found when he actually counted correctly he was over 100 units (~30-50 beers), yet no one considered him an alcoholic. I've noticed similar trends if you look at "social drinkers" and do accurate counting. 100% agree about the risk factors being reasonable. You're more likely to be the victim and perpetrator of crime, or be injured.
P_I_Staker 7y ago
Well put. I should have specified that I was talking about people who drink regularly. Looking at large populations aren't that useful here, as many people simply opt out, because they're sick, religion, or just don't like it. While I agree that the some of the risks are suspect, I tend to think the question is "how much risk are you willing to accept"? IMO it's appropriate to consider things like STDs, injury, violence, abuse, and incarceration as risks. These problems are common among drinkers due to the heavy impairment alcohol causes.

P_I_Staker 7y ago

I'm well aware that this isn't healthy, but it is the norm within much of the US. There was some unfortunate use of "most" and "much". However, the point is that this type of behavior is extremely normalized. The cited percentages don't mean much to me, except I will take your point that I should have used words more carefully. 17% might sound tiny, but I don't think it makes much sense to look at the total population here. There are quite a few people who don't drink at all, or very little (to the point that I wouldn't call them "drinkers"). I should have specified that the populations I'm looking at are 18-35 year old "drinkers". The cited behavior wouldn't be shocking at all within this group, and would absolutely be considered normal. The problem is somewhat masked by the fact 16 oz or larger beers are common these days. From what I've heard CA/UK/AU isn't doing much better. I'd highly recommend the documentary "Drinkers like me". It features a middle aged man in UK, who's not considered an alcoholic by friends slow realization, that his drinking might not be as moderate as he thinks; and that society may normalize alcohol abuse.

dpark 7y ago
> 17% might sound tiny, but I don't think it makes much sense to look at the total population here. It's not just the population, though. Your binge frequency is 4 times higher than that of the CDC report, meaning that you're really discussing some population much smaller than 17%. My guess is that you're probably covering about 5% of population with your example. Even when I was in college this wasn't normal. There were certainly people who drank this much, and given the frequency of binge drinking, they could fit in without being so obvious. But people who admitted to drinking a case of beer a week were very rare.
- P_I_Staker 7y ago
  5% is one out of twenty people. That's not very rare, when you consider these things tend to have a lopsided distribution. You have to be careful with statistics, because in our minds numbers like 5-17% are minuscule, but the reality is that's not uncommon. If you were to consider this drinking pattern a disease (we'll call it "borderline alcohol abuse"), it would be considered "very common", since there are over 3 million cases (16 million +) > Your binge frequency is 4 times higher than that of the CDC report I think you're exaggerating a bit. I present a wide range and you're focusing on the highest end of it. The low end would be much more reasonable, though not completely healthy. > But people who admitted to drinking a case of beer a week were very rare. That's kinda the point. People aren't admitting it or being realistic with how much they drink (I'd be willing to bet these statistics are low also). A guy in the UK started counting and was over 100 units (~30-50 beers). Nobody thought he was an alcoholic at all. It's just a bit of fun social drinking. Of course you're gonna go out with boys after your beer league hockey game (where you had 1-3 beers in the locker room), later in the week there's trivia, and you have to go to Mark's party. Oh, and you like to have a beer or two with the game (forgetting you frequently grab 3). After a stressful day of work you have a drink or two, so what? In my experience, this kind of behavior is totally normalized; I'm not the first person to notice.

pmart123 7y ago

For what it is worth, I would guess most people under report their drink totals to surveys. Also, just using the following link: https://www.alcohol.org/bac-calculator/ https://www.alcohol.org/bac-calculator/ BAC can range greatly depending on size and gender. For a 200 pound guy, seven beers over three hours is close in BAC to four for a 120 pound woman. Age I would guess is also a factor. Three drinks would definitely would have a much larger effect on my in my thirties versus in my early twenties.