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Ironic that Einstein, writing in America after fleeing the horrors of national socialism in Germany, still entertained notions of subjugating the individual to

Ironic that Einstein, writing in America after fleeing the horrors of national socialism in Germany, still entertained notions of subjugating the individual to the state.

kingkilr 16y ago
Uhh, you know that the National Socialist Worker's Party didn't really have anything to do with socialism?
- TomOfTTB 16y ago
  I'm sorry but that just isn't correct. I'm absolutely not saying all socialists are Nazis but the Nazi party was an extreme example of the socialist philosophy. That philosophy being that the Government should use its power to socially engineer a better world (the opposite of which being the libertarian philosophy that the Government should exist to protect people against social engineering by allowing them to do what they want even if those actions are detrimental). Obviously it's all a sliding scale but to say OstiaAntica is flat out wrong is not accurate.
  - andyv 16y ago
    The Nazis were facists, which is to say that there was "private property", but the state could tell you what you had to do with "your" property. In socialism, the state owns the property. It's a distinction without much of a difference, the main one being that socialism is a little more honest.
    - foljs 16y ago
      Spoken like a true 5 minute dabbler with an extremely cursory knowledge of the topic at hand. Bravo! Actually, the "state owning the property" is not a core idea of socialism --it was only a "feature" of "really existing socialism", and even USSR had things like the NEP. Except for the backward places where "really existing socialism" developed, extremely few europeans (or american for that matter) socialists believed that it was a proper socialism at all. As in, there are several types of socialism. Things americans complain about and deny as "socialism" (universal health care, for one), are proposed by even right-wing parties in Europe. I'm sorry, but a cursory glance at one book or a documentary, or something heard from a friend of a friend, won't do. In order to intelligently discuss matters of world politics one has to do a little research. And it would be better if that research was impartial. Buy some books from both sides of the argument, and from both sides of the atlantic (and even the pacific). The average opinion even on this matters, even on a site like "Hacker News" is often little better than what creationists know about evolution.
  - ippisl 16y ago
    The main problem with nazism(and probably communism) is that it isn't democratic, not that it's socialistic. Social engineering can be a good thing, in the right quantities. just look at sweden. but it's very hard to achieve this right quantity under a dictatorship, not to talk about the awfull people that usually lead dictatorships.
  - papaf 16y ago
    I highly recommend the Political Compass: http://www.politicalcompass.org/ http://www.politicalcompass.org/ It changed my 1 dimensional thinking about the sliding scale between left and right and I feel richer for it.
foljs 16y ago
Emm, actually Hitler adopted the "Socialism" part of "National Socialism" in order to win leftist votes, in a giant bait-and-switch scheme. The Nazi party had nothing to do with socialism, as the term was and is known and defined in the relevant political literature. Or, more correctly, the horrors of Nazi germany had nothing to do with economic regulation and the social health care et al, and all to do with racist ideology, dictatorship and imperialism. Actually, Sweden is socialist, in the sense most americans define the word, as well as New Zealand, and it's all the better for them --and they have tens times more refined than either US Republican or Democrat policies.

Ironic that Einstein, writing in America after fleeing the horrors of national socialism in Germany, still entertained notions of subjugating the individual to the state.

kingkilr 16y ago

Uhh, you know that the National Socialist Worker's Party didn't really have anything to do with socialism?

TomOfTTB 16y ago
I'm sorry but that just isn't correct. I'm absolutely not saying all socialists are Nazis but the Nazi party was an extreme example of the socialist philosophy. That philosophy being that the Government should use its power to socially engineer a better world (the opposite of which being the libertarian philosophy that the Government should exist to protect people against social engineering by allowing them to do what they want even if those actions are detrimental). Obviously it's all a sliding scale but to say OstiaAntica is flat out wrong is not accurate.
- andyv 16y ago
  The Nazis were facists, which is to say that there was "private property", but the state could tell you what you had to do with "your" property. In socialism, the state owns the property. It's a distinction without much of a difference, the main one being that socialism is a little more honest.
  - foljs 16y ago
    Spoken like a true 5 minute dabbler with an extremely cursory knowledge of the topic at hand. Bravo! Actually, the "state owning the property" is not a core idea of socialism --it was only a "feature" of "really existing socialism", and even USSR had things like the NEP. Except for the backward places where "really existing socialism" developed, extremely few europeans (or american for that matter) socialists believed that it was a proper socialism at all. As in, there are several types of socialism. Things americans complain about and deny as "socialism" (universal health care, for one), are proposed by even right-wing parties in Europe. I'm sorry, but a cursory glance at one book or a documentary, or something heard from a friend of a friend, won't do. In order to intelligently discuss matters of world politics one has to do a little research. And it would be better if that research was impartial. Buy some books from both sides of the argument, and from both sides of the atlantic (and even the pacific). The average opinion even on this matters, even on a site like "Hacker News" is often little better than what creationists know about evolution.
- ippisl 16y ago
  The main problem with nazism(and probably communism) is that it isn't democratic, not that it's socialistic. Social engineering can be a good thing, in the right quantities. just look at sweden. but it's very hard to achieve this right quantity under a dictatorship, not to talk about the awfull people that usually lead dictatorships.
- papaf 16y ago
  I highly recommend the Political Compass: http://www.politicalcompass.org/ http://www.politicalcompass.org/ It changed my 1 dimensional thinking about the sliding scale between left and right and I feel richer for it.

foljs 16y ago

Emm, actually Hitler adopted the "Socialism" part of "National Socialism" in order to win leftist votes, in a giant bait-and-switch scheme. The Nazi party had nothing to do with socialism, as the term was and is known and defined in the relevant political literature. Or, more correctly, the horrors of Nazi germany had nothing to do with economic regulation and the social health care et al, and all to do with racist ideology, dictatorship and imperialism. Actually, Sweden is socialist, in the sense most americans define the word, as well as New Zealand, and it's all the better for them --and they have tens times more refined than either US Republican or Democrat policies.