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The murder of OP isn't that interesting. Everyone who is knowledgeable about the case knows it can't have been a conspiracy. It was a lone gunman, possibly a dr

The murder of OP isn't that interesting. Everyone who is knowledgeable about the case knows it can't have been a conspiracy. It was a lone gunman, possibly a drug addict, seeing OP and his wife, seizing the opportunity to kill him. But what is interesting is the completely disastrous following investigation. The police in Stockholm fucked up in every possible way there is to fuck up. Records were not kept, witnesses were promised rewards for testifying, they didn't investigate the crime scene properly, chased after wild conspiracy theories about South Africa and PKK and so on. Eventually they brought in experts from the FBI, but then it was already too late because it is much harder to solve a murder three years after the fact than one month after. The only reason the murderer went free is the insane incompetence displayed.

walkingolof 8y ago
The disaster IMO was what the act itself led to, it took something away from all of us. I want to live in a country where the PM walks home by himself at the end of the day, lives in a ordinary place and takes out the garbage after dinner. I loved that with our country, I was at a concert last summer where the current PM showed up, this was a very small concert in the northern part of the country, with an entourage of SÄPO guards that only could qualify as a small private army.
- njepa 8y ago
  Security got a lot more plentiful after Anna Lindh and Utøya. (And of course the whole war on terror). These things can't happen too often and stay the same, unfortunately.
  - aivisol 8y ago
    Alas, the world we live in is far from perfect. Si vis pacem, para bellum - the Romans knew it and I believe it is still very true.
- hollibpmpa 8y ago
  I ran in to our previous PM in the Systembolaget at NK-huset a couple years ago, with 2x SÄPO:s. It was odd to see. He bought like 8 of those Stockholm 5,2.
coldtea 8y ago
>* But what is interesting is the completely disastrous following investigation. The police in Stockholm fucked up in every possible way there is to fuck up. Records were not kept, witnesses were promised rewards for testifying, they didn't investigate the crime scene properly, chased after wild conspiracy theories about South Africa and PKK and so on.* And that somehow gives people certainty that "it can't have been a conspiracy"?
acqq 8y ago
> Everyone who is knowledgeable about the case knows it can't have been a conspiracy. It was a lone gunman Can you please elaborate? I could very well imagine a seemingly lone gunman who would indeed be a part of a conspiracy, and I have a kind of a direct experience: I was personally a victim of a robbery where only one man attacked me, in what at that moment appeared to me as a completely random attack. Only after that didn't went as planned, a second man came, but not to help me but to help him, to my complete surprise. By chance and my luck the attack was ultimately not successful, but their goal was anyway not to harm me but just to get something I've possessed. Even more interestingly, after reporting the case to the police and after the investigation based on my previous movements before the attack it turned out that these two had two more accomplices. In total, at least four men were involved in one "small" robbery attack. The police told me they are aware of many such cases, and that there was probably even a fifth person involved who coordinated the four. And this all happened in the country and city of more or less comparable overall security and well being to Stockholm, not somewhere where everybody expects such dangers. So what appeared to be a random attack is actually often indeed planned and involves more people. Even the thieves seldom operate alone. Then what should be the arguments that there wasn't any conspiracy there?
- fpoling 8y ago
  I was told about similar experience in Moscow. To still a small bag from a man at least three thieves were involved. One distracted, one “accidentally” pushed, one picked up the dropped bag.
  - acqq 8y ago
    Some real life details from the U.S: "Street pickpockets generally work in teams, known as whiz mobs or wire mobs. The “steer” chooses the victim, who is referred to generically as the “mark,” the “vic,” or the “chump,” but can also be categorized into various subspecies, among them “Mr. Bates” (businessman) and “pappy” (senior citizen). The “stall,” or “stick,” maneuvers the mark into position and holds him there, distracting his attention, perhaps by stumbling in his path, asking him for directions, or spilling something on him. The “shade” blocks the mark’s view of what’s about to happen, either with his body or with an object such as a newspaper. And the “tool” (also known as the “wire,” the “dip,” or the “mechanic”) lifts his wallet and hands it off to the “duke man,” who hustles away, leaving the rest of the mob clean." If I counted correctly, the described team has five members. For that kind of action it could be an optimum, otherwise it wouldn't be a typical example. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/01/07/a-pickpockets-tale https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/01/07/a-pickpockets-... In the article there's a reference to "a paperback, published in 1964, called “Whiz Mob: A Correlation of the Technical Argot of Pickpockets with Their Behavior Patterns,” by David W. Maurer, a professor of English who devoted his life to the study of raffish subcultures, before apparently killing himself, in 1981." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_W._Maurer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_W._Maurer "David Warren Maurer (April 12, 1906 – June 11, 1981) was a professor of linguistics at the University of Louisville from 1937 to 1972, and an author of numerous studies of the language of the American underworld." Thanks to the modern technology if you're interested in that topic you can find today various CCTV footage of such acts on the YouTube. What's fascinating is how everything happens so "easily" in the real life that even when you try to watch carefully you'd initially miss all the actors until the video points to them or until you replay the video. It's almost like a famous gorilla in the basketball game, but happening continuously on the streets and in the shops.
6006135 8y ago
It seems like a lot of the comments are here from Swedes, and probably that is the working definition here for what consists the common perception. Is there a simple argument why it was not South African special police? I understand that the Swedish police decided it implausible, but did they explain why? I think the amount of paranoia and turbulance in SA during the 1980's and the other operations of the special army/police factions make it a somewhat believable possibility. The other thing to keep in mind is that during that time a lot of people were already acting in a sort of "rogue" way. There are always people that go to the radical extreme before a change in power.
- mongol 8y ago
  Why it was not South African special police? Usually you start from evidence that points to a suspect. I am not aware of any.
  - 6006135 7y ago
    So I understand that many people admitted to the murder. In South Africa, there was a specific admission to the murder by Craig Williamson, who is a ex-special agent. I don't think that here there is the same phenomenon by which multiple people admit to the murder in a delusional way. This admission was done as part of the TRC (Truth and Reconciliation Commision). There is no reason here not to believe them. The only thing I can think of is delusions of grandeur, but like I say, I don't know of many TRC revelations being untrue.

walkingolof 8y ago

The disaster IMO was what the act itself led to, it took something away from all of us. I want to live in a country where the PM walks home by himself at the end of the day, lives in a ordinary place and takes out the garbage after dinner. I loved that with our country, I was at a concert last summer where the current PM showed up, this was a very small concert in the northern part of the country, with an entourage of SÄPO guards that only could qualify as a small private army.

njepa 8y ago
Security got a lot more plentiful after Anna Lindh and Utøya. (And of course the whole war on terror). These things can't happen too often and stay the same, unfortunately.
- aivisol 8y ago
  Alas, the world we live in is far from perfect. Si vis pacem, para bellum - the Romans knew it and I believe it is still very true.
hollibpmpa 8y ago
I ran in to our previous PM in the Systembolaget at NK-huset a couple years ago, with 2x SÄPO:s. It was odd to see. He bought like 8 of those Stockholm 5,2.

coldtea 8y ago

>* But what is interesting is the completely disastrous following investigation. The police in Stockholm fucked up in every possible way there is to fuck up. Records were not kept, witnesses were promised rewards for testifying, they didn't investigate the crime scene properly, chased after wild conspiracy theories about South Africa and PKK and so on.* And that somehow gives people certainty that "it can't have been a conspiracy"?

acqq 8y ago

> Everyone who is knowledgeable about the case knows it can't have been a conspiracy. It was a lone gunman Can you please elaborate? I could very well imagine a seemingly lone gunman who would indeed be a part of a conspiracy, and I have a kind of a direct experience: I was personally a victim of a robbery where only one man attacked me, in what at that moment appeared to me as a completely random attack. Only after that didn't went as planned, a second man came, but not to help me but to help him, to my complete surprise. By chance and my luck the attack was ultimately not successful, but their goal was anyway not to harm me but just to get something I've possessed. Even more interestingly, after reporting the case to the police and after the investigation based on my previous movements before the attack it turned out that these two had two more accomplices. In total, at least four men were involved in one "small" robbery attack. The police told me they are aware of many such cases, and that there was probably even a fifth person involved who coordinated the four. And this all happened in the country and city of more or less comparable overall security and well being to Stockholm, not somewhere where everybody expects such dangers. So what appeared to be a random attack is actually often indeed planned and involves more people. Even the thieves seldom operate alone. Then what should be the arguments that there wasn't any conspiracy there?

fpoling 8y ago
I was told about similar experience in Moscow. To still a small bag from a man at least three thieves were involved. One distracted, one “accidentally” pushed, one picked up the dropped bag.
- acqq 8y ago
  Some real life details from the U.S: "Street pickpockets generally work in teams, known as whiz mobs or wire mobs. The “steer” chooses the victim, who is referred to generically as the “mark,” the “vic,” or the “chump,” but can also be categorized into various subspecies, among them “Mr. Bates” (businessman) and “pappy” (senior citizen). The “stall,” or “stick,” maneuvers the mark into position and holds him there, distracting his attention, perhaps by stumbling in his path, asking him for directions, or spilling something on him. The “shade” blocks the mark’s view of what’s about to happen, either with his body or with an object such as a newspaper. And the “tool” (also known as the “wire,” the “dip,” or the “mechanic”) lifts his wallet and hands it off to the “duke man,” who hustles away, leaving the rest of the mob clean." If I counted correctly, the described team has five members. For that kind of action it could be an optimum, otherwise it wouldn't be a typical example. https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/01/07/a-pickpockets-tale https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2013/01/07/a-pickpockets-... In the article there's a reference to "a paperback, published in 1964, called “Whiz Mob: A Correlation of the Technical Argot of Pickpockets with Their Behavior Patterns,” by David W. Maurer, a professor of English who devoted his life to the study of raffish subcultures, before apparently killing himself, in 1981." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_W._Maurer https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_W._Maurer "David Warren Maurer (April 12, 1906 – June 11, 1981) was a professor of linguistics at the University of Louisville from 1937 to 1972, and an author of numerous studies of the language of the American underworld." Thanks to the modern technology if you're interested in that topic you can find today various CCTV footage of such acts on the YouTube. What's fascinating is how everything happens so "easily" in the real life that even when you try to watch carefully you'd initially miss all the actors until the video points to them or until you replay the video. It's almost like a famous gorilla in the basketball game, but happening continuously on the streets and in the shops.

6006135 8y ago

It seems like a lot of the comments are here from Swedes, and probably that is the working definition here for what consists the common perception. Is there a simple argument why it was not South African special police? I understand that the Swedish police decided it implausible, but did they explain why? I think the amount of paranoia and turbulance in SA during the 1980's and the other operations of the special army/police factions make it a somewhat believable possibility. The other thing to keep in mind is that during that time a lot of people were already acting in a sort of "rogue" way. There are always people that go to the radical extreme before a change in power.

mongol 8y ago
Why it was not South African special police? Usually you start from evidence that points to a suspect. I am not aware of any.
- 6006135 7y ago
  So I understand that many people admitted to the murder. In South Africa, there was a specific admission to the murder by Craig Williamson, who is a ex-special agent. I don't think that here there is the same phenomenon by which multiple people admit to the murder in a delusional way. This admission was done as part of the TRC (Truth and Reconciliation Commision). There is no reason here not to believe them. The only thing I can think of is delusions of grandeur, but like I say, I don't know of many TRC revelations being untrue.