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> How about small government? A lot of the small government rhetoric in the present day United States is actually rooted in racism. Google Lee Atwater's n-word

> How about small government? A lot of the small government rhetoric in the present day United States is actually rooted in racism. Google Lee Atwater's n-word quote for a 1980s GOP strategist's perspective. To summarize: overt racism becomes unpopular with some of the electorate so they come up with coded language about small government and taxation to appeal to racists.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago
Well since small government is apparently racist I'll just pack up my "the government has no business telling you what not to smoke" rhetoric and leave. I know this might be hard to believe but some people actually believe that all of society would benefit from less government involvement in all manner of things. Calling all that racist looks like you're just trying to find an excuse to dismiss it without having to make an argument for why it won't work.
- asveikau 8y ago
  Some emphasis added: Me: A lot of the ... rhetoric You: Calling all that racist By pointing out this, I don't believe I called the views themselves, nor any specific adherent to the viewpoint, let alone 100% of them, racist. Just that "a lot" of the rhetoric comes from this. Which it does. Meanwhile, did you listen to the Lee Atwater clip? Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT2fsv7xt4E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT2fsv7xt4E This aligns pretty well with the rise of Reagan (for whom Atwater worked) and the late 20th century to present wave of "small government" politicians who somehow, shockingly, seem to rack up massive debts without a care when they are in power. Lastly, > you're just trying to find an excuse to dismiss it without having to make an argument for why it won't work. Health care is the perfect such argument, actually. Look at the rest of the developed world, or even something low overhead like Medicare [which doesn't need massive advertising budgets or, say, thousands of redundant billing companies], and tell me the US private sector does a better job.
- Frondo 8y ago
  I sincerely wish those people would actually come up with specific workable policies that demonstrated an interest in small government that wasn't race-based. Like, take small government on a local level. You cut the city budget by a third, which part are you cutting? Do you cut the police budget? Do you cut the parks? Public transportation? Public health services? Some of those will impact communities of color more than others. So be specific and say "yes, I want to cut public transportation, recognizing that it disproportionately hits communities of color." And we can talk about that, instead of just "well small government is better". Or what would you cut at the federal level, to have a smaller government? Housing and urban development, which again predominantly benefits communities of color? The military? The legendary farm bill? Depending on how you rejigger the government, I'm all for a smaller one. Cut the military down to a hundredth its size and institute medicare for all and free higher ed and you're probably still smaller than you started. But these days, in general, there's a lot of overlap in the venn diagram of "smaller government" and "cut policies that help communities of color," and that's why people are quick to call small government republicans racist. (That and the racism that a lot of republicans now openly display.)
fromthestart 8y ago
>A lot of the small government rhetoric in the present day United States is actually rooted in racism So is it socially acceptable to hold any typically Republican/right leaning position without being dismissed and smeared as a racist? You don't see a problem with this unnecessarily divisive, racist, hand wavey rhetoric? What's the point in having any kind of political discussion at all if people are just going to make the bad faith claim that any right leaning policy is a secret dog whistle?
- asveikau 8y ago
  The free market thing is useful in the right doses and the right topics, but many people confuse it with their own personal identity and take it much too far, as if it were dogma or religion. In my personal observation, there often seems to be a lot of unaddressed anger involved in that form of extremism. I am not saying this is everybody with such a view. But when somebody goes on a tirade that people deserve to die, go bankrupt, or be denied care to protect margins of some private sector behemoth because taxation is theft ... When the evidence suggests the public sector tends to do a pretty good job at this. Yeah, there is something a little weird going on there.

dsfyu404ed 8y ago

Well since small government is apparently racist I'll just pack up my "the government has no business telling you what not to smoke" rhetoric and leave. I know this might be hard to believe but some people actually believe that all of society would benefit from less government involvement in all manner of things. Calling all that racist looks like you're just trying to find an excuse to dismiss it without having to make an argument for why it won't work.

asveikau 8y ago
Some emphasis added: Me: A lot of the ... rhetoric You: Calling all that racist By pointing out this, I don't believe I called the views themselves, nor any specific adherent to the viewpoint, let alone 100% of them, racist. Just that "a lot" of the rhetoric comes from this. Which it does. Meanwhile, did you listen to the Lee Atwater clip? Here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT2fsv7xt4E https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT2fsv7xt4E This aligns pretty well with the rise of Reagan (for whom Atwater worked) and the late 20th century to present wave of "small government" politicians who somehow, shockingly, seem to rack up massive debts without a care when they are in power. Lastly, > you're just trying to find an excuse to dismiss it without having to make an argument for why it won't work. Health care is the perfect such argument, actually. Look at the rest of the developed world, or even something low overhead like Medicare [which doesn't need massive advertising budgets or, say, thousands of redundant billing companies], and tell me the US private sector does a better job.
Frondo 8y ago
I sincerely wish those people would actually come up with specific workable policies that demonstrated an interest in small government that wasn't race-based. Like, take small government on a local level. You cut the city budget by a third, which part are you cutting? Do you cut the police budget? Do you cut the parks? Public transportation? Public health services? Some of those will impact communities of color more than others. So be specific and say "yes, I want to cut public transportation, recognizing that it disproportionately hits communities of color." And we can talk about that, instead of just "well small government is better". Or what would you cut at the federal level, to have a smaller government? Housing and urban development, which again predominantly benefits communities of color? The military? The legendary farm bill? Depending on how you rejigger the government, I'm all for a smaller one. Cut the military down to a hundredth its size and institute medicare for all and free higher ed and you're probably still smaller than you started. But these days, in general, there's a lot of overlap in the venn diagram of "smaller government" and "cut policies that help communities of color," and that's why people are quick to call small government republicans racist. (That and the racism that a lot of republicans now openly display.)

fromthestart 8y ago

>A lot of the small government rhetoric in the present day United States is actually rooted in racism So is it socially acceptable to hold any typically Republican/right leaning position without being dismissed and smeared as a racist? You don't see a problem with this unnecessarily divisive, racist, hand wavey rhetoric? What's the point in having any kind of political discussion at all if people are just going to make the bad faith claim that any right leaning policy is a secret dog whistle?

asveikau 8y ago
The free market thing is useful in the right doses and the right topics, but many people confuse it with their own personal identity and take it much too far, as if it were dogma or religion. In my personal observation, there often seems to be a lot of unaddressed anger involved in that form of extremism. I am not saying this is everybody with such a view. But when somebody goes on a tirade that people deserve to die, go bankrupt, or be denied care to protect margins of some private sector behemoth because taxation is theft ... When the evidence suggests the public sector tends to do a pretty good job at this. Yeah, there is something a little weird going on there.