4 ms·

> If we knew there was no hope, or that she’d be permanently mentally disabled, I can’t honestly say that we’d have fought this hard for her. This makes sense

> If we knew there was no hope, or that she’d be permanently mentally disabled, I can’t honestly say that we’d have fought this hard for her. This makes sense and I don’t want to be insensitive but it got me wondering: has this experience changed the way you view abortion? I’ve heard “quality of life” as a strong argument for an abortion when doctors give a prognosis of serious or debilitating disease. Just curious how your experience has informed your thinking on this subject.

wincy 7y ago
My wife has more exposure to abortion related discussions because the Spina Bifida Facebook moms groups (there’s some dads but it’s almost all moms to be honest), constantly have women joining asking if they should abort. The mother’s feel strongly pressured by doctors to abort, but it’s a weird thing because you don’t know how bad the case is going to be. We’ve seen a dozen Spina Bifida babies come and go from the NICU, all of them with less complications than our little girl, and often home within a week. No tracheotomy, just a brain shunt and the back closing surgery. It’s a tough question. There seems to be an implicit assumption in a lot of abortion arguments that a reduction of suffering should be a goal in life, but maybe some suffering and struggle isn’t so bad. I’m also fairly libertarian in that I support abortion rights even though I don’t think we’d personally abort. I heard someone say recently that with abortion, maybe ideally we don’t want to live in a world where people don’t feel that’s their only option. A lot of these children, despite the issues, sure they might have to catheter themselves a few times a day and give themselves enemas and sleep with a CPAP, but is that better than not existing? I think so, but I don’t think it’s my place to tell other people what to believe. Life is certainly going to be a little harder for us, but even if she died tomorrow I don’t think I’d go back back and do anything differently, aside from maybe strongly encourage my wife to take a methylfolate supplement, which might have prevented the condition. My daughter certainly seems very happy to be here, and even though it hurts us, I think that it’ll be okay and maybe that can be okay. We’ve adopted a sort of Stoicism about it that gives my wife and I strength. I’m a person who also insisted on getting a colonoscopy with no sedation, so maybe I’m just a really weird guy. I’ve been chewing on your question all day and that’s what I’ve come up with, it’s an interesting question and I think there could be a lot more nuance around the discussions maybe not of what the laws are surrounding abortion, but our ethical framework and thoughtful reasoning for getting an abortion. I certainly still don’t think it should be illegal. If you make it illegal you end up with crazy things like in Columbia (I think), a woman with three children was arrested after coming to the hospital having a miscarriage, and was accused of aborting her child. Awful stuff.
- Noumenon72 7y ago
  > sure they might have to catheter themselves a few times a day and give themselves enemas and sleep with a CPAP, but is that better than not existing? Existing when everything's fine is barely better than not existing! This is horrific. > I think so, but I don’t think it’s my place to tell other people what to believe. It's even less your place to tell other people they have to live with conditions like this their entire lives. I will never have kids because of these risks, not until self euthanasia becomes completely legal.
  - wincy 7y ago
    I strongly, viscerally, and emotionally disagree with everything you said at a very deep level and that's as far as this conversation can go, sorry. I hope one day you can find more meaning in life and wish you all the best.
    - Noumenon72 7y ago
      You should discount your visceral and emotional reaction. It is instilled into you by natural selection, which has no care for human suffering as long as we reproduce.

wincy 7y ago

My wife has more exposure to abortion related discussions because the Spina Bifida Facebook moms groups (there’s some dads but it’s almost all moms to be honest), constantly have women joining asking if they should abort. The mother’s feel strongly pressured by doctors to abort, but it’s a weird thing because you don’t know how bad the case is going to be. We’ve seen a dozen Spina Bifida babies come and go from the NICU, all of them with less complications than our little girl, and often home within a week. No tracheotomy, just a brain shunt and the back closing surgery. It’s a tough question. There seems to be an implicit assumption in a lot of abortion arguments that a reduction of suffering should be a goal in life, but maybe some suffering and struggle isn’t so bad. I’m also fairly libertarian in that I support abortion rights even though I don’t think we’d personally abort. I heard someone say recently that with abortion, maybe ideally we don’t want to live in a world where people don’t feel that’s their only option. A lot of these children, despite the issues, sure they might have to catheter themselves a few times a day and give themselves enemas and sleep with a CPAP, but is that better than not existing? I think so, but I don’t think it’s my place to tell other people what to believe. Life is certainly going to be a little harder for us, but even if she died tomorrow I don’t think I’d go back back and do anything differently, aside from maybe strongly encourage my wife to take a methylfolate supplement, which might have prevented the condition. My daughter certainly seems very happy to be here, and even though it hurts us, I think that it’ll be okay and maybe that can be okay. We’ve adopted a sort of Stoicism about it that gives my wife and I strength. I’m a person who also insisted on getting a colonoscopy with no sedation, so maybe I’m just a really weird guy. I’ve been chewing on your question all day and that’s what I’ve come up with, it’s an interesting question and I think there could be a lot more nuance around the discussions maybe not of what the laws are surrounding abortion, but our ethical framework and thoughtful reasoning for getting an abortion. I certainly still don’t think it should be illegal. If you make it illegal you end up with crazy things like in Columbia (I think), a woman with three children was arrested after coming to the hospital having a miscarriage, and was accused of aborting her child. Awful stuff.

Noumenon72 7y ago
> sure they might have to catheter themselves a few times a day and give themselves enemas and sleep with a CPAP, but is that better than not existing? Existing when everything's fine is barely better than not existing! This is horrific. > I think so, but I don’t think it’s my place to tell other people what to believe. It's even less your place to tell other people they have to live with conditions like this their entire lives. I will never have kids because of these risks, not until self euthanasia becomes completely legal.
- wincy 7y ago
  I strongly, viscerally, and emotionally disagree with everything you said at a very deep level and that's as far as this conversation can go, sorry. I hope one day you can find more meaning in life and wish you all the best.
  - Noumenon72 7y ago
    You should discount your visceral and emotional reaction. It is instilled into you by natural selection, which has no care for human suffering as long as we reproduce.