4 ms·

> Am I the only one who feels that authors should be paid for their work? No. The question is what's the right way to get there? > I'll go a step further and

by clarry 7y ago

> Am I the only one who feels that authors should be paid for their work? No. The question is what's the right way to get there? > I'll go a step further and say that I think that authors offering up their work for free hurts the entire ecosystem, since it gives consumers the expectation that information is free. Once produced, information should be free. Doing research, writing it down, making a book, none of that needs to be free.

yinyang_in 7y ago
Can you explain more up here, is research/making/writing is not free, how should one get paid for it(research/../..) ?
Veen 7y ago
> Doing research, writing it down, making a book, none of that needs to be free. That works in some cases. I get paid for ghost writing articles and books for business people. They usually publish for free to make themselves look clever. But no one would claim that the result is independent or motivated by artistic creativity. Your model is fine for hackwork and what is essentially marketing, but that's about all it's fine for. No one would have paid $INSERT_FAVORITE_NOVELIST to research and write their novels if they knew there'd be zero chance of making a return on that investment.
- antepodius 7y ago
  If a genie came up to you, demonstrated its powers to your satisfaction, and then gave you the choice: a. Give him 20 dollars, or b. He retroactively erases your favourite book from history You'd probably pay him. It's basically patronship. You pay someone to make art for the sake of the art (or social standing, or whatever). It's not perfect (you can't predict reliably whether the artist will make anything good, and there are questions of incentives damaging the art) but it's better than nothing, and these days, with the internet, patronship can be crowd-funded. It has been successful: I've read several webnovels written as serials whose authors are being supported on patreon by fans, essentially being paid for the act of making directly rather than by selling. It's probably usually a paltry amount, but it's something: it shows some subset of people want to give money to authors when they don't have to (the serials are released for free).
  - chadash 7y ago
    As you say, it's usually a paltry amount. I doubt that many make a a decent living off of this let alone enough to pay support staff such as editors and the like. The biggest issue is the free rider one... why should I pay you when others will pay and I'll get the same benefit. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do (I personally voluntarily contribute to several podcast creators who I like) but it's reality.
    - 0815test 7y ago
      But it's clearly not a "paltry amount" if it's enough to fund the work and ensure that it gets made. Isn't that ultimately what matters?
      - chadash 7y ago
        I saw an article that about 2% of Patreon patronees make above federal minimum wage which is still way below a living wage. There are a tiny handful who make a lot, but for the most part this isn't a model that is working for people who want this to be their main source of income.
- clarry 7y ago
  > No one would have paid $INSERT_FAVORITE_NOVELIST to research and write their novels if they knew there'd be zero chance of making a return on that investment. Uh, do you buy novels for RoI? I thought you'd buy them to read and enjoy them. And you'd give novelists money so that they can write a book for you to read and enjoy.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - chadash 7y ago
    He's not talking about ROI for the consumer, he's talking about ROI for the author who put time into writing a novel. Take Dickens, who was famously opposed to the lack of copyright laws in America at the time and felt that he was getting cheated by people who read his work without paying him. I wonder how many people sent him money out of good will? Yes, there is Patreon for supporting creators, but very few people make a decent living this way. And many authors would prefer a publisher who helps them take a risk by fronting money to something like Patreon, where you are at the mercy of your consumers who may or may not give you enough money to create your work.

by clarry 7y ago

yinyang_in 7y ago

Can you explain more up here, is research/making/writing is not free, how should one get paid for it(research/../..) ?

Veen 7y ago

> Doing research, writing it down, making a book, none of that needs to be free. That works in some cases. I get paid for ghost writing articles and books for business people. They usually publish for free to make themselves look clever. But no one would claim that the result is independent or motivated by artistic creativity. Your model is fine for hackwork and what is essentially marketing, but that's about all it's fine for. No one would have paid $INSERT_FAVORITE_NOVELIST to research and write their novels if they knew there'd be zero chance of making a return on that investment.

antepodius 7y ago
If a genie came up to you, demonstrated its powers to your satisfaction, and then gave you the choice: a. Give him 20 dollars, or b. He retroactively erases your favourite book from history You'd probably pay him. It's basically patronship. You pay someone to make art for the sake of the art (or social standing, or whatever). It's not perfect (you can't predict reliably whether the artist will make anything good, and there are questions of incentives damaging the art) but it's better than nothing, and these days, with the internet, patronship can be crowd-funded. It has been successful: I've read several webnovels written as serials whose authors are being supported on patreon by fans, essentially being paid for the act of making directly rather than by selling. It's probably usually a paltry amount, but it's something: it shows some subset of people want to give money to authors when they don't have to (the serials are released for free).
- chadash 7y ago
  As you say, it's usually a paltry amount. I doubt that many make a a decent living off of this let alone enough to pay support staff such as editors and the like. The biggest issue is the free rider one... why should I pay you when others will pay and I'll get the same benefit. I'm not saying it's the right thing to do (I personally voluntarily contribute to several podcast creators who I like) but it's reality.
  - 0815test 7y ago
    But it's clearly not a "paltry amount" if it's enough to fund the work and ensure that it gets made. Isn't that ultimately what matters?
    - chadash 7y ago
      I saw an article that about 2% of Patreon patronees make above federal minimum wage which is still way below a living wage. There are a tiny handful who make a lot, but for the most part this isn't a model that is working for people who want this to be their main source of income.
clarry 7y ago
> No one would have paid $INSERT_FAVORITE_NOVELIST to research and write their novels if they knew there'd be zero chance of making a return on that investment. Uh, do you buy novels for RoI? I thought you'd buy them to read and enjoy them. And you'd give novelists money so that they can write a book for you to read and enjoy.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- chadash 7y ago
  He's not talking about ROI for the consumer, he's talking about ROI for the author who put time into writing a novel. Take Dickens, who was famously opposed to the lack of copyright laws in America at the time and felt that he was getting cheated by people who read his work without paying him. I wonder how many people sent him money out of good will? Yes, there is Patreon for supporting creators, but very few people make a decent living this way. And many authors would prefer a publisher who helps them take a risk by fronting money to something like Patreon, where you are at the mercy of your consumers who may or may not give you enough money to create your work.