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>Then you could publish a binary containing native versions for all existing architectures and be assured that it would also work for all future ports of the OS

>Then you could publish a binary containing native versions for all existing architectures and be assured that it would also work for all future ports of the OS to other architectures without the need for recompilation. This may be a closed vs open-source applications split which would then explain the Windows/OSX vs Linux split that seems to happen. On Windows/OSX the property that you can run the same build forever because everything is backwards compatible is appreciated. On Linux most people are downloading a distro that includes most or all the software they will be running. So you don't care if the old app build still works in the new OS because there's not even that distinction between what are apps and what is the OS. Once you're in that frame of reference having an icon standard in ELF doesn't add anything. What I really care about is that the whole Debian archive continues to be available and maintained so stuff doesn't bitrot. Other people have other tastes of course (hence snap/flatpack) but apparently not enough have wanted and worked on it for it to happen.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
> On Windows/OSX the property that you can run the same build forever because everything is backwards compatible is appreciated. On Linux most people are downloading a distro that includes most or all the software they will be running. One of these two methodologies requires an army of middlemen compiling and packaging applications for people. And if a middleman didn't compile it, well, fuck you I guess. It's a nightmare for users who want to run things no one has packaged yet and its a nightmare for developers who just want to ship their product to a user. It's the reason Flatpak, Snap, and AppImage exist. > Other people have other tastes of course (hence snap/flatpack) but apparently not enough have wanted and worked on it for it to happen. Not enough people in the Linux Desktop Community, you mean. Which might be why that community is so tiny.
- pedrocr 7y ago
  I could argue the other side, as there's definitely value in a well assembled distro. But I won't because you're essentially complaining about what other people do with their own time. If you don't like it don't use it. Complaining about it with insults is a crappy thing to do and one of the reasons open-source maintainers burn out.
  - AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
    I don't use it. That's one of the big reasons I don't use it. And just as they are free to do with their time as they like, I'm free to say "my but that's an inefficient way to do things". You're free not to like me for calling it out, and you're free to downvote me for disagreement. Freedom. I didn't insult anybody, the "fuck you" here is what the community says to people who want to install things that aren't in the repo.
    - pedrocr 7y ago
      The community says no such thing, that's the insult. The community even has multiple options current and past to reduce frictions on using things that aren't packaged, or make packaging easier and updates faster. Your characterization of what a distro is and how it treats its users is insulting exactly because it completely discounts the huge effort that's put into solving the complex issues and the advantages it brings. You're not offering an argument for how things work today, their tradeoffs and what could be done better. You're not offering time or other resources to help. You're just attributing vile behaviors to other people while offering nothing of value.
      - AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
        > The community says no such thing, that's the insult. The community even has multiple options current and past to reduce frictions on using things that aren't packaged Some parts of the community do, namely the ones that came up with AppDirs, AppImages, and to a lesser extent Flatpak and Snap. The fact that these have not been widely adopted by the community over the past decade of their existence says all that needs saying about the community at large. Instead, what happens? Libraries routinely break ABIs, paths are hardcoded at compile time. Etc. If you complain about such things what do you get? An earful about how you should just use the package manager. > Your characterization of what a distro is and how it treats its users is insulting My characterization of distro's treatment of users is insulting because it characterizes their treatment of users as insulting... ok, sure. Then I guess it is an insult, and I feel no need to apologize for that. > exactly because it completely discounts the huge effort that's put into solving the complex issues and the advantages it brings. That's mostly because I can't really think of any benefits. I suppose a centralized location to obtain software? That's.... something I guess. Otherwise it is a giant, over-engineered mess of a system that largely only serves to solve problems it has created for itself. > You're not offering an argument for how things work today These things exist today, all that has to happen is for the community to start using them. > You're not offering time or other resources to help. See project this comment thread is about. They tried to help, the community told them to shove it. That's a story I've seen repeated many times, from embedded ELF icons to the many variations of AppDirs. There is nothing left to do but call the community out on why their crap is crap. Maybe I should just keep quiet about it? Yeah, maybe. I'm either preaching to the choir or committing horrific sacrilege depending on which perspective you're reading this from. But I guess I take it personally that there are so many people so intent on computing being awful.

AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago

> On Windows/OSX the property that you can run the same build forever because everything is backwards compatible is appreciated. On Linux most people are downloading a distro that includes most or all the software they will be running. One of these two methodologies requires an army of middlemen compiling and packaging applications for people. And if a middleman didn't compile it, well, fuck you I guess. It's a nightmare for users who want to run things no one has packaged yet and its a nightmare for developers who just want to ship their product to a user. It's the reason Flatpak, Snap, and AppImage exist. > Other people have other tastes of course (hence snap/flatpack) but apparently not enough have wanted and worked on it for it to happen. Not enough people in the Linux Desktop Community, you mean. Which might be why that community is so tiny.

pedrocr 7y ago
I could argue the other side, as there's definitely value in a well assembled distro. But I won't because you're essentially complaining about what other people do with their own time. If you don't like it don't use it. Complaining about it with insults is a crappy thing to do and one of the reasons open-source maintainers burn out.
- AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
  I don't use it. That's one of the big reasons I don't use it. And just as they are free to do with their time as they like, I'm free to say "my but that's an inefficient way to do things". You're free not to like me for calling it out, and you're free to downvote me for disagreement. Freedom. I didn't insult anybody, the "fuck you" here is what the community says to people who want to install things that aren't in the repo.
  - pedrocr 7y ago
    The community says no such thing, that's the insult. The community even has multiple options current and past to reduce frictions on using things that aren't packaged, or make packaging easier and updates faster. Your characterization of what a distro is and how it treats its users is insulting exactly because it completely discounts the huge effort that's put into solving the complex issues and the advantages it brings. You're not offering an argument for how things work today, their tradeoffs and what could be done better. You're not offering time or other resources to help. You're just attributing vile behaviors to other people while offering nothing of value.
    - AnIdiotOnTheNet 7y ago
      > The community says no such thing, that's the insult. The community even has multiple options current and past to reduce frictions on using things that aren't packaged Some parts of the community do, namely the ones that came up with AppDirs, AppImages, and to a lesser extent Flatpak and Snap. The fact that these have not been widely adopted by the community over the past decade of their existence says all that needs saying about the community at large. Instead, what happens? Libraries routinely break ABIs, paths are hardcoded at compile time. Etc. If you complain about such things what do you get? An earful about how you should just use the package manager. > Your characterization of what a distro is and how it treats its users is insulting My characterization of distro's treatment of users is insulting because it characterizes their treatment of users as insulting... ok, sure. Then I guess it is an insult, and I feel no need to apologize for that. > exactly because it completely discounts the huge effort that's put into solving the complex issues and the advantages it brings. That's mostly because I can't really think of any benefits. I suppose a centralized location to obtain software? That's.... something I guess. Otherwise it is a giant, over-engineered mess of a system that largely only serves to solve problems it has created for itself. > You're not offering an argument for how things work today These things exist today, all that has to happen is for the community to start using them. > You're not offering time or other resources to help. See project this comment thread is about. They tried to help, the community told them to shove it. That's a story I've seen repeated many times, from embedded ELF icons to the many variations of AppDirs. There is nothing left to do but call the community out on why their crap is crap. Maybe I should just keep quiet about it? Yeah, maybe. I'm either preaching to the choir or committing horrific sacrilege depending on which perspective you're reading this from. But I guess I take it personally that there are so many people so intent on computing being awful.