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I suggest people watch the actual Tesla autopilot in action https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk0eZRVw9x4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk0eZRVw9x4 before makin

I suggest people watch the actual Tesla autopilot in action https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk0eZRVw9x4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk0eZRVw9x4 before making definite judgements. I watched this video, and I counted at least 3 situations where the car would've had a minor crash and one situation where the crash could be head on collision as the car couldn't detect wavy lanes properly without road markings. The technology Tesla is using in the autopilot is pretty cool, but the feature definitely has a wrong name. It should be called something like Driver Assist Plus etc. Oh, and there is no way in hell they'll have functioning robotaxis outside predetermined geographic areas in one year's time. I'll print this post and eat it if they do!

kohtatsu 7y ago
Define "functioning".
- nolok 7y ago
  "Doesn't kill people in case where it shouldn't that they then end up calling << autopilot is not an autopilot ! everybody knows that, except when we say otherwise when selling it or to our investors, also the name is just a coincidence ! >>" ? I think the point parent was making was that Tesla was playing fast and lose with what they define as what is full auto pilot and what is merely driving assistance, especially by changing their wording depending on who they're facing, but it's mostly been able to go along because so far they're still in enhanced driving assistance and it's a gray area despite all the existing rules. But robotaxi is much clearer: at no point can you make it a requirement / way out that whoever was having a ride should have driven the car 100% of the time at 100% attention. And that's basically how they got out of every single one of their major crash.
notaki 7y ago
The entire video is Autopilot in city driving. Autopilot, at this time, is only for "driving on dry, straight roads, such as highways and freeways. It should not be used on city streets."
- cmsonger 7y ago
  Completely agree, but then if users followed Tesla's instructions about AP then we would not be here. There is precedence that "it's up to the user" is not sufficient as a societal standard for what is legally allowed. (For example seat belt laws). It is reasonable to ask: "Should we allow such a feature in cars on our road?" For example, what if the car had struck a cyclist rather than a truck and the fatality went the other way?
  - notaki 7y ago
    What precedence? If "it's up to the user" is not sufficient, then all vehicles should be speed capped at the legal speed limit and prohibited from moving if seat belts are not on. Clearly that's not the case. Unfortunately, freedom includes the freedom to do dumb shit. Some people do dumb shit and are responsible for the consequences.
    - cmsonger 7y ago
      > Unfortunately, freedom includes the freedom to do dumb shit. You are not legally free to do all dumb shit. For example, you are not free in many states to ride around without a seatbelt on. Car makers are not free to make cars without seatbelts. That's the precedence.
      - notaki 7y ago
        That's exactly my point. Seat belts are required by law. Obeying the speed limit is required by law. But users are not forced to obey these laws by restrictions placed on the vehicles by manufacturers. If the user disobeys the law, they are responsible. If a Tesla driver disobeys Tesla's Autopilot warning, they are responsible. Are you proposing that we need a law that makes Autopilot illegal to use on city streets? Or highways as well?
- GoToRO 7y ago
  So the wipers are on due to rain but the "autopilot" is not so smart to know that it's raining? Why can people activate it if it knows that these are not the right conditions for it to work?
jplayer01 7y ago
Oh, that was fascinating. I've never seen Tesla Autopilot in action before. It's ... really, really underwhelming. I wouldn't ever take my hands off the wheel.
- natch 7y ago
  Underwhelming if you had inflated expectations based on a misconstrued idea of what it is. It’s pretty good on freeways. It was never intended for small streets. And yes you’re supposed to keep your hands on the wheel.
  - jplayer01 7y ago
    I had nothing except Elon's PR to go on. Well, I didn't really have any expectations. I don't spend my days thinking "Oh, Tesla Autopilot's such an amazing self-driving function". I've seen plenty of discussions about how limited it is and I'm quite aware that it's far from any sort of self-driving solution. It's not like discussions about it are rare on HN. But still, seeing it is much much much more different from observing discussions about it.
    - natch 7y ago
      And experiencing it is much much much more different from seeing a video of some cherry picked road segments.
zepearl 7y ago
Speed bumps: interesting, I never thought of that so far. Potentially quite difficult to detect them if the car doesn't have them marked in its GPS-map, or?
zaroth 7y ago
Actually he spends a minute at around t=4:00 talking about how the car had just saved him from a head on collision. That’s pretty sweet. At 9:58 there’s a behavior I saw a few times two or three versions back, where Tesla didn’t want to make room for a car cutting you off. Since about 2019.8 it will back off even as soon as it sees a blinker to make space. The biggest challenge which this gen AP has is crossing intersections which are on a curve and have no lane markings. It’s not supposed to be able to do that, and not surprisingly it doesn’t do it so well. But as a counterpoint, MA was nice enough to grind off all the lane marking on the Mass Pike westbound out of Boston a couple weeks ago and, I have no idea how, but AP keeps in lane nicely with just the grinding marks remaining on the road.
natch 7y ago
I suggest you drive with autopilot first hand before you think you understand anything about it. It DOES require human supervision and intervention; that is an expected part of the deal... and if you judge it in a different light, that is on you. As far as taxis, Elon said they would have supervision drivers at first. This fact continues to escape the notice of people misquoting him and claiming he “promised” things that he didn’t.
- natch 7y ago
  Downvotes, is that all you’ve got? Can’t explain yourself because you’ve got no good response?
perl4ever 7y ago
"It should be called something like Driver Assist Plus etc." It seems to me that a feature which randomly veers into objects is not in fact a form of assistance, but a hindrance which makes driving more difficult than baseline. It's been said before, I'm sure, but telling people to keep their hands on the wheel doesn't solve the problem of determining when to take over or resist the algorithm, since you don't know what it will do next and the time between normal driving and disaster is generally very small. A crash could be caused by the combination of actions, just like when two people both try to avoid each other in a hall, but collide anyway.

kohtatsu 7y ago

Define "functioning".

nolok 7y ago
"Doesn't kill people in case where it shouldn't that they then end up calling << autopilot is not an autopilot ! everybody knows that, except when we say otherwise when selling it or to our investors, also the name is just a coincidence ! >>" ? I think the point parent was making was that Tesla was playing fast and lose with what they define as what is full auto pilot and what is merely driving assistance, especially by changing their wording depending on who they're facing, but it's mostly been able to go along because so far they're still in enhanced driving assistance and it's a gray area despite all the existing rules. But robotaxi is much clearer: at no point can you make it a requirement / way out that whoever was having a ride should have driven the car 100% of the time at 100% attention. And that's basically how they got out of every single one of their major crash.

notaki 7y ago

The entire video is Autopilot in city driving. Autopilot, at this time, is only for "driving on dry, straight roads, such as highways and freeways. It should not be used on city streets."

cmsonger 7y ago
Completely agree, but then if users followed Tesla's instructions about AP then we would not be here. There is precedence that "it's up to the user" is not sufficient as a societal standard for what is legally allowed. (For example seat belt laws). It is reasonable to ask: "Should we allow such a feature in cars on our road?" For example, what if the car had struck a cyclist rather than a truck and the fatality went the other way?
- notaki 7y ago
  What precedence? If "it's up to the user" is not sufficient, then all vehicles should be speed capped at the legal speed limit and prohibited from moving if seat belts are not on. Clearly that's not the case. Unfortunately, freedom includes the freedom to do dumb shit. Some people do dumb shit and are responsible for the consequences.
  - cmsonger 7y ago
    > Unfortunately, freedom includes the freedom to do dumb shit. You are not legally free to do all dumb shit. For example, you are not free in many states to ride around without a seatbelt on. Car makers are not free to make cars without seatbelts. That's the precedence.
    - notaki 7y ago
      That's exactly my point. Seat belts are required by law. Obeying the speed limit is required by law. But users are not forced to obey these laws by restrictions placed on the vehicles by manufacturers. If the user disobeys the law, they are responsible. If a Tesla driver disobeys Tesla's Autopilot warning, they are responsible. Are you proposing that we need a law that makes Autopilot illegal to use on city streets? Or highways as well?
GoToRO 7y ago
So the wipers are on due to rain but the "autopilot" is not so smart to know that it's raining? Why can people activate it if it knows that these are not the right conditions for it to work?

jplayer01 7y ago

Oh, that was fascinating. I've never seen Tesla Autopilot in action before. It's ... really, really underwhelming. I wouldn't ever take my hands off the wheel.

natch 7y ago
Underwhelming if you had inflated expectations based on a misconstrued idea of what it is. It’s pretty good on freeways. It was never intended for small streets. And yes you’re supposed to keep your hands on the wheel.
- jplayer01 7y ago
  I had nothing except Elon's PR to go on. Well, I didn't really have any expectations. I don't spend my days thinking "Oh, Tesla Autopilot's such an amazing self-driving function". I've seen plenty of discussions about how limited it is and I'm quite aware that it's far from any sort of self-driving solution. It's not like discussions about it are rare on HN. But still, seeing it is much much much more different from observing discussions about it.
  - natch 7y ago
    And experiencing it is much much much more different from seeing a video of some cherry picked road segments.

zepearl 7y ago

Speed bumps: interesting, I never thought of that so far. Potentially quite difficult to detect them if the car doesn't have them marked in its GPS-map, or?

zaroth 7y ago

Actually he spends a minute at around t=4:00 talking about how the car had just saved him from a head on collision. That’s pretty sweet. At 9:58 there’s a behavior I saw a few times two or three versions back, where Tesla didn’t want to make room for a car cutting you off. Since about 2019.8 it will back off even as soon as it sees a blinker to make space. The biggest challenge which this gen AP has is crossing intersections which are on a curve and have no lane markings. It’s not supposed to be able to do that, and not surprisingly it doesn’t do it so well. But as a counterpoint, MA was nice enough to grind off all the lane marking on the Mass Pike westbound out of Boston a couple weeks ago and, I have no idea how, but AP keeps in lane nicely with just the grinding marks remaining on the road.

natch 7y ago

I suggest you drive with autopilot first hand before you think you understand anything about it. It DOES require human supervision and intervention; that is an expected part of the deal... and if you judge it in a different light, that is on you. As far as taxis, Elon said they would have supervision drivers at first. This fact continues to escape the notice of people misquoting him and claiming he “promised” things that he didn’t.

natch 7y ago
Downvotes, is that all you’ve got? Can’t explain yourself because you’ve got no good response?

perl4ever 7y ago

"It should be called something like Driver Assist Plus etc." It seems to me that a feature which randomly veers into objects is not in fact a form of assistance, but a hindrance which makes driving more difficult than baseline. It's been said before, I'm sure, but telling people to keep their hands on the wheel doesn't solve the problem of determining when to take over or resist the algorithm, since you don't know what it will do next and the time between normal driving and disaster is generally very small. A crash could be caused by the combination of actions, just like when two people both try to avoid each other in a hall, but collide anyway.