10 ms·

One interesting point here is that the commonly-repeated mantra of "don't talk to police" would have likely resulted in this guy getting booked to jail, ending

One interesting point here is that the commonly-repeated mantra of "don't talk to police" would have likely resulted in this guy getting booked to jail, ending up with a mugshot on a couple of mugshot extortion websites, and generally getting his life upended.

scarejunba 8y ago
That's some yuppie shit, got to be honest. Brown bearded guy reaches for his phone after telling the cop he's not going to talk and he's going to dial his lawyer and you get a guy without his beard, or his jaw, or his life.
- crooked-v 8y ago
  For the people downvoting this post, consider that people have been shot in the US for complying with police orders, including literally lying on the ground with arms up [1], for simply possessing a firearm with hands well away from it [2], and for attempting to comply with police orders to crawl across the floor with legs crossed and arms up (yes, really) [3]. Getting immediately shot for putting a hand in a pocket is an entirely realistic possibility. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Charles_Kinsey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Charles_Kinsey [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Philando_Castile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Philando_Castile [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver
  - cf141q5325 8y ago
    No one is suggesting to just reach for your phone.
- striking 8y ago
  I don't think that's the right time to call your lawyer. The advice I've received in the past is to comply to the best of your ability, don't talk to the police, call your lawyer when you have a chance, and fight whatever there is to fight in court or in the media. Reaching for something in your pocket instead of complying will probably get you hurt regardless of race. (I am neither lawyer nor LEO)
mirimir 8y ago
The "don't talk to police" mantra is for when you know that you've done something wrong. So the main thing is that you don't want to lie about it, because they're trained to detect lies, and to manipulate you into contradicting yourself. Otherwise, being polite and not escalating is the safest approach. Because another aspect of traditional police training in the US is always out-escalating suspects. Edit: What can I say? It clearly worked for this guy. Perhaps because he looks pretty harmless. But it's also worked for me. Because I also look pretty harmless, I guess.
- andybak 8y ago
  > The "don't talk to police" mantra is for when you know that you've done something wrong Not true. Rewatch the original video. It covers exactly this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
- CaptainZapp 8y ago
  A very experienced criminal lawyer who used to be a federal prosecutor very strongly disagrees with your assessment[1] & [2] There's a whole collection of well reasoned opinions why you should really shut the fuck up, when confronted with police[3] [1] https://www.popehat.com/2013/05/01/shut-up-i-explained-mostly-pointlessly/ https://www.popehat.com/2013/05/01/shut-up-i-explained-mostl... [2] https://www.popehat.com/2011/12/01/reminder-oh-wont-you-please-shut-up/ https://www.popehat.com/2011/12/01/reminder-oh-wont-you-plea... [3] https://www.popehat.com/tag/shut-up/ https://www.popehat.com/tag/shut-up/
  - mirimir 8y ago
    Look, this was basically a traffic stop. And the guy handled it well. If he had gone the "don't talk to police" route, he'd have spent time in jail. And your examples are mostly about people who had done something wrong.
    - CaptainZapp 8y ago
      He actually answers this very point:[1] So, I say, don't talk to the cops. Ask to speak with an attorney, and get competent advice before you answer the cops' questions. Are there mundane situations in which you might rationally decide to talk to the cops — say, if a neighbor's house is burglarized, and they come to ask if you saw anything? Sure. But you should view each interaction with the cops with an extreme caution bordering on paranoia, as you would handle a dangerous wild animal. When you talk to a cop, you are talking to someone who is often privileged to kill you with complete impunity, someone whose claims about what you said during your interaction — however fantastical — will likely be accepted uncritically by the system even if the particular cop is a proven serial liar. Even the most mundane interaction carries the potential for life-altering disaster. [1] https://www.popehat.com/2014/01/15/the-privilege-to-shut-up/ https://www.popehat.com/2014/01/15/the-privilege-to-shut-up/
cf498 8y ago
And not having your seatbelt on puts you in a better situation if your car is sinking in a lake. Doenst mean you shouldnt wear a seatbelt. Talking to the police is gambling with your life. You might get lucky you might not.
- kozak 8y ago
  Seat belt increases your chances of being conscious in order to exit the sinking car.
  - warmwaffles 8y ago
    Assuming you aren't pinned. This game can go on forever.
vectorEQ 8y ago
mugshot extortion websites.... that says it all really...

scarejunba 8y ago

That's some yuppie shit, got to be honest. Brown bearded guy reaches for his phone after telling the cop he's not going to talk and he's going to dial his lawyer and you get a guy without his beard, or his jaw, or his life.

crooked-v 8y ago
For the people downvoting this post, consider that people have been shot in the US for complying with police orders, including literally lying on the ground with arms up [1], for simply possessing a firearm with hands well away from it [2], and for attempting to comply with police orders to crawl across the floor with legs crossed and arms up (yes, really) [3]. Getting immediately shot for putting a hand in a pocket is an entirely realistic possibility. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Charles_Kinsey https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Charles_Kinsey [2]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Philando_Castile https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Philando_Castile [3]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Daniel_Shaver
- cf141q5325 8y ago
  No one is suggesting to just reach for your phone.
striking 8y ago
I don't think that's the right time to call your lawyer. The advice I've received in the past is to comply to the best of your ability, don't talk to the police, call your lawyer when you have a chance, and fight whatever there is to fight in court or in the media. Reaching for something in your pocket instead of complying will probably get you hurt regardless of race. (I am neither lawyer nor LEO)

mirimir 8y ago

The "don't talk to police" mantra is for when you know that you've done something wrong. So the main thing is that you don't want to lie about it, because they're trained to detect lies, and to manipulate you into contradicting yourself. Otherwise, being polite and not escalating is the safest approach. Because another aspect of traditional police training in the US is always out-escalating suspects. Edit: What can I say? It clearly worked for this guy. Perhaps because he looks pretty harmless. But it's also worked for me. Because I also look pretty harmless, I guess.

andybak 8y ago
> The "don't talk to police" mantra is for when you know that you've done something wrong Not true. Rewatch the original video. It covers exactly this. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d-7o9xYp7eE
CaptainZapp 8y ago
A very experienced criminal lawyer who used to be a federal prosecutor very strongly disagrees with your assessment[1] & [2] There's a whole collection of well reasoned opinions why you should really shut the fuck up, when confronted with police[3] [1] https://www.popehat.com/2013/05/01/shut-up-i-explained-mostly-pointlessly/ https://www.popehat.com/2013/05/01/shut-up-i-explained-mostl... [2] https://www.popehat.com/2011/12/01/reminder-oh-wont-you-please-shut-up/ https://www.popehat.com/2011/12/01/reminder-oh-wont-you-plea... [3] https://www.popehat.com/tag/shut-up/ https://www.popehat.com/tag/shut-up/
- mirimir 8y ago
  Look, this was basically a traffic stop. And the guy handled it well. If he had gone the "don't talk to police" route, he'd have spent time in jail. And your examples are mostly about people who had done something wrong.
  - CaptainZapp 8y ago
    He actually answers this very point:[1] So, I say, don't talk to the cops. Ask to speak with an attorney, and get competent advice before you answer the cops' questions. Are there mundane situations in which you might rationally decide to talk to the cops — say, if a neighbor's house is burglarized, and they come to ask if you saw anything? Sure. But you should view each interaction with the cops with an extreme caution bordering on paranoia, as you would handle a dangerous wild animal. When you talk to a cop, you are talking to someone who is often privileged to kill you with complete impunity, someone whose claims about what you said during your interaction — however fantastical — will likely be accepted uncritically by the system even if the particular cop is a proven serial liar. Even the most mundane interaction carries the potential for life-altering disaster. [1] https://www.popehat.com/2014/01/15/the-privilege-to-shut-up/ https://www.popehat.com/2014/01/15/the-privilege-to-shut-up/

cf498 8y ago

And not having your seatbelt on puts you in a better situation if your car is sinking in a lake. Doenst mean you shouldnt wear a seatbelt. Talking to the police is gambling with your life. You might get lucky you might not.

kozak 8y ago
Seat belt increases your chances of being conscious in order to exit the sinking car.
- warmwaffles 8y ago
  Assuming you aren't pinned. This game can go on forever.

vectorEQ 8y ago

mugshot extortion websites.... that says it all really...