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Not 6 months ago, Elon Musk went on 60 Minutes and showed the world you can drive a Tesla hands free. A bunch of disclaimers does not make that OK. In the real

Not 6 months ago, Elon Musk went on 60 Minutes and showed the world you can drive a Tesla hands free. A bunch of disclaimers does not make that OK. In the real world, people more or less ignore the fine print. https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-tesla-autopilot-60-minutes-interview/ https://www.wired.com/story/elon-musk-tesla-autopilot-60-min...

fastball 7y ago
Having your hands off the wheel for the purpose of a demonstration is required if you want to demonstrate to a spectator that the car is actually driving itself.
- reitzensteinm 7y ago
  What exactly is your point? If you can't demonstrate your product while following your own safety procedures, that doesn't give you the right to break them.
  - fastball 7y ago
    Do you also complain when [literally any other automaker] shows off their new car doing donuts or skidding around corners because that is "unsafe use"? Promotional material is not instructional material, and should not be treated as such.
    - reitzensteinm 7y ago
      If James Hackett were flooring a Mustang around a corner on public roads during a 60 Minutes interview while boasting about their new traction control I would be in a fit of rage. The "you're being unfair to Tesla because you aren't complaining about other automakers" meme has to die, because Tesla often does what no other automaker dares. This leads to their biggest triumphs (and there are many), and their worst mistakes. I guess that's what happens when you optimize for decisions per unit of time, right?
      - unityByFreedom 7y ago
        > The "you're being unfair to Tesla because you aren't complaining about other automakers" meme has to die I too am tired of people misdirecting conversations. Maybe it's our attention deficit culture, or maybe it's whataboutism spread by masters of the game such as China. Why does everything need to be on the same level? I can criticize Tesla for one thing, and another company for another.
sjwright 7y ago
Are we being distracted here? The issue in this case—and indeed with most AutoPilot-related incidents—wasn't anything to do with the driver taking his hands off the wheel, it was the driver taking his eyes off the road.
zaroth 7y ago
Quoting from an old comment of mine; Every other other Level 2 system advertisement I could find shows the driver with their hands off the wheel, at least to some extent; [1] - Nissan - https://youtu.be/HkL67DgleQY https://youtu.be/HkL67DgleQY [2] - Ford - https://youtu.be/Z_9218dTXXY https://youtu.be/Z_9218dTXXY [3] - Audi - https://youtu.be/nUlK6fpveXg https://youtu.be/nUlK6fpveXg [4] - BMW - https://youtu.be/xsQvq4WlUYU https://youtu.be/xsQvq4WlUYU https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19290518#19292141 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19290518#19292141
- reitzensteinm 7y ago
  You seem to be having trouble figuring out what the actual issue is. Tesla can't market its system in a way that indicates hands free use is ok, then turn around then blame the driver when they crash driving like that. Like Elon! Other car companies need to be held to the exact same standard. Audi says you can take your hands off in traffic jam assist in its ad, the car monitors alertness and tells you when to take over. If a customer takes their hands off as directed and the car accelerates suddenly in to the car in front of them, Audi is at fault. If they then turn around and say the customer isn't reading the fine print, then they've crossed the line in to being a bad actor just like Tesla.

fastball 7y ago

Having your hands off the wheel for the purpose of a demonstration is required if you want to demonstrate to a spectator that the car is actually driving itself.

reitzensteinm 7y ago
What exactly is your point? If you can't demonstrate your product while following your own safety procedures, that doesn't give you the right to break them.
- fastball 7y ago
  Do you also complain when [literally any other automaker] shows off their new car doing donuts or skidding around corners because that is "unsafe use"? Promotional material is not instructional material, and should not be treated as such.
  - reitzensteinm 7y ago
    If James Hackett were flooring a Mustang around a corner on public roads during a 60 Minutes interview while boasting about their new traction control I would be in a fit of rage. The "you're being unfair to Tesla because you aren't complaining about other automakers" meme has to die, because Tesla often does what no other automaker dares. This leads to their biggest triumphs (and there are many), and their worst mistakes. I guess that's what happens when you optimize for decisions per unit of time, right?
    - unityByFreedom 7y ago
      > The "you're being unfair to Tesla because you aren't complaining about other automakers" meme has to die I too am tired of people misdirecting conversations. Maybe it's our attention deficit culture, or maybe it's whataboutism spread by masters of the game such as China. Why does everything need to be on the same level? I can criticize Tesla for one thing, and another company for another.

sjwright 7y ago

Are we being distracted here? The issue in this case—and indeed with most AutoPilot-related incidents—wasn't anything to do with the driver taking his hands off the wheel, it was the driver taking his eyes off the road.

zaroth 7y ago

Quoting from an old comment of mine; Every other other Level 2 system advertisement I could find shows the driver with their hands off the wheel, at least to some extent; [1] - Nissan - https://youtu.be/HkL67DgleQY https://youtu.be/HkL67DgleQY [2] - Ford - https://youtu.be/Z_9218dTXXY https://youtu.be/Z_9218dTXXY [3] - Audi - https://youtu.be/nUlK6fpveXg https://youtu.be/nUlK6fpveXg [4] - BMW - https://youtu.be/xsQvq4WlUYU https://youtu.be/xsQvq4WlUYU https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19290518#19292141 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=19290518#19292141

reitzensteinm 7y ago
You seem to be having trouble figuring out what the actual issue is. Tesla can't market its system in a way that indicates hands free use is ok, then turn around then blame the driver when they crash driving like that. Like Elon! Other car companies need to be held to the exact same standard. Audi says you can take your hands off in traffic jam assist in its ad, the car monitors alertness and tells you when to take over. If a customer takes their hands off as directed and the car accelerates suddenly in to the car in front of them, Audi is at fault. If they then turn around and say the customer isn't reading the fine print, then they've crossed the line in to being a bad actor just like Tesla.