3 ms·

Uhhh.. so you're cool with interment camps, no free speech, and effective police surveillance?

ngokevin 7y ago
Those are terrible, but realize that the only news that makes it out from China to the US are the negative, and heavily paints China as evil. Everyone I talk to have never been to China, yet think everyone there is brainwashed. People realize a lot of things are terrible about the government, just like in any other country. China has been on an economic boom and radically changing the last half century reaching Western levels of QoL...although Jinping is taking it down a notch. Imagine living in a country where media filters all about the US down to Japanese internment camps just barely over half a century ago, NSA spying, GitMo waterboarding, homeless-packed cities, and kids getting shot in schools routinely. It's probably what happens in North Korea.
andbberger 7y ago
I said nothing of authoritarianism. China provides evidence (if we really needed it) that it is possible to organize more effectively. I am not insinuating any causal relationship between the authoritarianism and the more efficient organization. I think that as a species we can absolutely do better than all of that, engineer an organizational system that is both efficient and above all _actually_ humane and democratic.
- briandear 7y ago
  That “efficient organization” is done at the risk of being sent to a camp. The Nazi’s were incredibly efficient as well. I’d rather have messy freedom than perfectly efficient government.
- aeternus 7y ago
  There's a strong argument to be made that a truly benevolent dictator is by far the best form of government. Efficient decisions that are in the best interest of the overall population. China may have come close to that over the last decade. The question is whether it can maintain that, or whether the power of the authoritarian regime will eventually lead to corruption and decisions that are counter to the overall interest of the people.

Those are terrible, but realize that the only news that makes it out from China to the US are the negative, and heavily paints China as evil. Everyone I talk to have never been to China, yet think everyone there is brainwashed. People realize a lot of things are terrible about the government, just like in any other country. China has been on an economic boom and radically changing the last half century reaching Western levels of QoL...although Jinping is taking it down a notch. Imagine living in a country where media filters all about the US down to Japanese internment camps just barely over half a century ago, NSA spying, GitMo waterboarding, homeless-packed cities, and kids getting shot in schools routinely. It's probably what happens in North Korea.

andbberger 7y ago

I said nothing of authoritarianism. China provides evidence (if we really needed it) that it is possible to organize more effectively. I am not insinuating any causal relationship between the authoritarianism and the more efficient organization. I think that as a species we can absolutely do better than all of that, engineer an organizational system that is both efficient and above all _actually_ humane and democratic.

briandear 7y ago
That “efficient organization” is done at the risk of being sent to a camp. The Nazi’s were incredibly efficient as well. I’d rather have messy freedom than perfectly efficient government.
aeternus 7y ago
There's a strong argument to be made that a truly benevolent dictator is by far the best form of government. Efficient decisions that are in the best interest of the overall population. China may have come close to that over the last decade. The question is whether it can maintain that, or whether the power of the authoritarian regime will eventually lead to corruption and decisions that are counter to the overall interest of the people.