4 ms·

> This is something that has been pioneered, developed, and commoditized in other countries, both in Europe and Asia. Not this length directly along a highly a

> This is something that has been pioneered, developed, and commoditized in other countries, both in Europe and Asia. Not this length directly along a highly active earthquake fault line and including a massive tunnel underneath an entire mountain range that is exceptionally tectonically active. > incredibly modest ambitions I would describe it as hopelessly arrogant ambitions, bordering on technically impossible, and definitely technically impossible within two orders of magnitude of the originally proposed funding.

ng12 7y ago
This is true of Japan as well and they have no trouble with significantly more ambitious projects. Don't buy into California's snowflake syndrome.
- magduf 7y ago
  Exactly. I just rode the Shinkansen in Japan from Tokyo to Kyoto. The train peaks at 185mph, and a significant portion of the route is straight through mountains, in tunnels. And don't forget just how prone to earthquakes Japan is. Finally, this line was first built in the 1960s! California is just pathetic if they can't build something that's much less ambitious than that in the 2010s/20s through terrain that's much easier. Oh, and that's just one Shinkansen line (and the most heavily-used one). They have them all across the country. I rode another one to the west coast, and saw yet another line under construction; that one was elevated. Finally, about Japan in general from what I saw there: there was lots of construction of all kinds going on. New buildings, renovated buildings, new train lines, construction on subway stations, etc. When they need something, they just seem to build it. Over here, we just argue about stuff and then never get any kind of public-works projects done.
  - 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
    While I'm not going to dispute Japanese engineering prowess, I do have to note that a lot of the construction going on in Japan is pure pork-barrel politics. The Chuo Maglev under construction from Tokyo to Nagoya is never expected to recoup its exorbitant construction costs, and all new Shinkansen lines & expressways under construction or opened in the last 20 years are bleeding red ink.
    - magduf 7y ago
      >The Chuo Maglev under construction from Tokyo to Nagoya is never expected to recoup its exorbitant construction costs, and all new Shinkansen lines & expressways under construction or opened in the last 20 years are bleeding red ink. Exactly how profitable is the American Interstate highway system? How much money does America's highways earn per year in fares?
JCStr 7y ago
Not to mention that Europeans have no idea how much they are actually being pillaged of in order to maintain the immensely inefficient systems, or just how corrupt they are because they are political cesspools between industry and government, where the politicians are largely held hostage by industry and unions and therefor squander the funds they pillage through taxes. It's not their own money after all, what do they care. It's actually rather sad how Europeans are so fleeced and have no idea because it's so obscured and obfuscated through so many different shell games, essentially. One indication of just how messed up it is, are the immensely lower salaries in Europe for the same jobs in the USA, while also being bilked and essentially turned into slaves through taxes that take up about 50% of income for the average European. And even after they were bilked of thousands ever year in taxes on lower salaries, they STILL have to pay rather high prices for that wonderful "public transportation" ... unless of course you are a "refugee", then the government is quick to hand out the pillaged taxes they stole from their citizens in order to provide free transportation to foreign nationals.
gnulinux 7y ago
California is not world's only earthquake zone. There are high speed trains in other earthquake zones too such as Japan, Italy, Turkey, China.
arcticbull 7y ago
Tell that to the Swiss who built railways to handle 25% inclines, or the Japanese who are also on fault lines. The California ambitions were absolutely modest. Nothing proposed hasn't been done before, in worse conditions, crazier terrain, longer distances -- all of it.

ng12 7y ago

This is true of Japan as well and they have no trouble with significantly more ambitious projects. Don't buy into California's snowflake syndrome.

magduf 7y ago
Exactly. I just rode the Shinkansen in Japan from Tokyo to Kyoto. The train peaks at 185mph, and a significant portion of the route is straight through mountains, in tunnels. And don't forget just how prone to earthquakes Japan is. Finally, this line was first built in the 1960s! California is just pathetic if they can't build something that's much less ambitious than that in the 2010s/20s through terrain that's much easier. Oh, and that's just one Shinkansen line (and the most heavily-used one). They have them all across the country. I rode another one to the west coast, and saw yet another line under construction; that one was elevated. Finally, about Japan in general from what I saw there: there was lots of construction of all kinds going on. New buildings, renovated buildings, new train lines, construction on subway stations, etc. When they need something, they just seem to build it. Over here, we just argue about stuff and then never get any kind of public-works projects done.
- 9nGQluzmnq3M 7y ago
  While I'm not going to dispute Japanese engineering prowess, I do have to note that a lot of the construction going on in Japan is pure pork-barrel politics. The Chuo Maglev under construction from Tokyo to Nagoya is never expected to recoup its exorbitant construction costs, and all new Shinkansen lines & expressways under construction or opened in the last 20 years are bleeding red ink.
  - magduf 7y ago
    >The Chuo Maglev under construction from Tokyo to Nagoya is never expected to recoup its exorbitant construction costs, and all new Shinkansen lines & expressways under construction or opened in the last 20 years are bleeding red ink. Exactly how profitable is the American Interstate highway system? How much money does America's highways earn per year in fares?

JCStr 7y ago

Not to mention that Europeans have no idea how much they are actually being pillaged of in order to maintain the immensely inefficient systems, or just how corrupt they are because they are political cesspools between industry and government, where the politicians are largely held hostage by industry and unions and therefor squander the funds they pillage through taxes. It's not their own money after all, what do they care. It's actually rather sad how Europeans are so fleeced and have no idea because it's so obscured and obfuscated through so many different shell games, essentially. One indication of just how messed up it is, are the immensely lower salaries in Europe for the same jobs in the USA, while also being bilked and essentially turned into slaves through taxes that take up about 50% of income for the average European. And even after they were bilked of thousands ever year in taxes on lower salaries, they STILL have to pay rather high prices for that wonderful "public transportation" ... unless of course you are a "refugee", then the government is quick to hand out the pillaged taxes they stole from their citizens in order to provide free transportation to foreign nationals.

gnulinux 7y ago

California is not world's only earthquake zone. There are high speed trains in other earthquake zones too such as Japan, Italy, Turkey, China.

arcticbull 7y ago

Tell that to the Swiss who built railways to handle 25% inclines, or the Japanese who are also on fault lines. The California ambitions were absolutely modest. Nothing proposed hasn't been done before, in worse conditions, crazier terrain, longer distances -- all of it.