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I don't think we can conclude that cameras are inadequate for forward object detection. Only that the processing systems used so far were. This can be a matter

by _ph_ 7y ago

I don't think we can conclude that cameras are inadequate for forward object detection. Only that the processing systems used so far were. This can be a matter of training of the neural networks and the amount of processing power used in the computing units. Radar is limited, as long as trailers in the US are allowed to have such high gaps to the ground. A lower bar on the sides would both help the collision detection systems as well as reduce the crash itself.

jdc 7y ago
They could probably solve the problem by mounting the radar on a trunion so it can sweep up and down (over say ~30 degrees).
simion314 7y ago
>A lower bar on the sides would both help the collision detection systems as well as reduce the crash itself. The Neural Network should be capable to recognize a truck from any angle and even if parts are obstructed. I hope we will get the details public and see if it actually tagged the obstacle but ignored it or it detect it as something else like maybe a side road advertising panel
darkpuma 7y ago
> "Radar is limited, as long as trailers in the US are allowed to have such high gaps to the ground." One of these crashes involved a firetruck, which unlike a semi-trailer, does not have a large gap underneath it. Radars are limited period. The radars used by Tesla lack the angular resolution to distinguish between a stationary object next to the road (e.g. a building or parked car) with a stationary object parked right in the middle of the road.
- JohnJamesRambo 7y ago
  But Elon told me I will be able to rent my Tesla out as an autonomous cab by the end of this year or so.
- dsfyu404ed 7y ago
  The radar Tesla spec'd is quite limited. The radar that companies people on HN don't think highly of sell to the government is "scary good" and that's just the decade+ old tech that I'm familiar with. I'm sure there's reasons Tesla doesn't/can't put that in cars though.
  - darkpuma 7y ago
    It's nice and all that the military has such cool radars, but how much do those systems cost? How large are they? What sort of power requirements do they have? What sort of duty cycles do they have? And can they legally be exported? Elon caving and adopting Lidar is probably more likely.
- _ph_ 7y ago
  One of these crashes involved a firetruck, which unlike a semi-trailer, does not have a large gap underneath it. That fire truck wasn't crossing the road, it was at the road side, which creates a different situation. The problem with high trailers is, that they very much look like a bridge to a radar. In any case, a proper side bareer can prevent deadly accidents.
  - mzs 7y ago
    It doesn't look that way, seems to have been in a lane, but any report on whether the autopilot was in fact engaged? https://twitter.com/CC_Firefighters/status/955529991319560192 https://twitter.com/CC_Firefighters/status/95552999131956019...
  - darkpuma 7y ago
    If the radar cannot distinguish between a bridge with five meters of clearance and a "bridge"(trailer) with a single meter of clearance, then the radar simply lacks the angular resolution to be effective. It's the same exact issue as it being unable to distinguish objects on the side of the road and objects in the middle of the road. It's insufficient angular resolution for the application, no matter which way you slice it.

by _ph_ 7y ago

jdc 7y ago

They could probably solve the problem by mounting the radar on a trunion so it can sweep up and down (over say ~30 degrees).

simion314 7y ago

>A lower bar on the sides would both help the collision detection systems as well as reduce the crash itself. The Neural Network should be capable to recognize a truck from any angle and even if parts are obstructed. I hope we will get the details public and see if it actually tagged the obstacle but ignored it or it detect it as something else like maybe a side road advertising panel

darkpuma 7y ago

> "Radar is limited, as long as trailers in the US are allowed to have such high gaps to the ground." One of these crashes involved a firetruck, which unlike a semi-trailer, does not have a large gap underneath it. Radars are limited period. The radars used by Tesla lack the angular resolution to distinguish between a stationary object next to the road (e.g. a building or parked car) with a stationary object parked right in the middle of the road.

JohnJamesRambo 7y ago
But Elon told me I will be able to rent my Tesla out as an autonomous cab by the end of this year or so.
dsfyu404ed 7y ago
The radar Tesla spec'd is quite limited. The radar that companies people on HN don't think highly of sell to the government is "scary good" and that's just the decade+ old tech that I'm familiar with. I'm sure there's reasons Tesla doesn't/can't put that in cars though.
- darkpuma 7y ago
  It's nice and all that the military has such cool radars, but how much do those systems cost? How large are they? What sort of power requirements do they have? What sort of duty cycles do they have? And can they legally be exported? Elon caving and adopting Lidar is probably more likely.
_ph_ 7y ago
One of these crashes involved a firetruck, which unlike a semi-trailer, does not have a large gap underneath it. That fire truck wasn't crossing the road, it was at the road side, which creates a different situation. The problem with high trailers is, that they very much look like a bridge to a radar. In any case, a proper side bareer can prevent deadly accidents.
- mzs 7y ago
  It doesn't look that way, seems to have been in a lane, but any report on whether the autopilot was in fact engaged? https://twitter.com/CC_Firefighters/status/955529991319560192 https://twitter.com/CC_Firefighters/status/95552999131956019...
- darkpuma 7y ago
  If the radar cannot distinguish between a bridge with five meters of clearance and a "bridge"(trailer) with a single meter of clearance, then the radar simply lacks the angular resolution to be effective. It's the same exact issue as it being unable to distinguish objects on the side of the road and objects in the middle of the road. It's insufficient angular resolution for the application, no matter which way you slice it.