4 ms·

Refusing take-homes is a reasonable stance but refusing to whiteboard strikes me as overly critical. It's a pretty standard thing to do in an interview... while

Refusing take-homes is a reasonable stance but refusing to whiteboard strikes me as overly critical. It's a pretty standard thing to do in an interview... while whiteboarding may be a little silly, walking out of an interview after someone's already blocked time for you because you think whiteboarding is silly is even more silly than whiteboarding is. If I were the interviewer I'd be concerned that you can't be even a little bit flexible with things that you personally don't like.

ravenstine 7y ago
> It's a pretty standard thing to do in an interview... I'm not interested at working for standard companies. :) But everyone is different. If whiteboarding is someone's thing, the more power to them. > walking out of an interview after someone's already blocked time for you because you think whiteboarding is silly is even more silly than whiteboarding is If there was a misunderstanding where they blocked out time in an interview for whiteboarding, I wouldn't be rude and refuse in person. What I do is ask in the phone screening or the first engineering interview about whether the technical interview would involve whiteboarding or brain teasers. If the answer is yes, I politely end the interview process. That way their time is wasted minimally. However, I have no qualms about walking out of an interview that involves brain teasers. > If I were the interviewer I'd be concerned that you can't be even a little bit flexible with things that you personally don't like. Interviewing is a two-way street. How about you be a little bit flexible and not make me do something that you personally like? No? Yeah, I didn't think so. I'll just work for companies that don't do whiteboarding in interviews, which are a dime a dozen. Yes, that was a bit crass, but it amazes me how people in the position of interviewing believe that interviewers should care about whether they're concerned over something.
- binarytox1n 7y ago
  As a hiring manager I would take a refusal to whiteboard or participate in an in-person coding problem as a sign that the candidate knew they were not qualified to write code and therefore declined so as not to waste anyone's time. I'm sure that doesn't matter to you as you don't want to work at standard companies anyway, but I have seen plenty of people fail to solve fizz buzz who had the nerve to show up for a Senior Dev role and therefore I will always ask my candidates to write code in front of me. Anyone can copy and paste their way into an active looking github profile, much fewer can talk me through their thought process as they solve a real problem that I have given them to solve.
  - ravenstine 7y ago
    If all I had to do was a problem like fizz buzz, I'd probably go ahead and do it. In my experience, most coding challenges that are in-person or take-home are more involved than that Fizz buzz, taking an hour or more. I can't think of a single coding challenge I did in the last 6 months that didn't involve either building a full application or something with complicated or game-like logic. The closest thing to fizz buzz level of simplicity might have been the custom file/directory system I had to work on, but even that was more involved and nuanced than writing fizz buzz.
taormina 7y ago
Hey, interviewing is a two-way street. I'd love it if the candidates that know they don't want the job halfway through told me so and gave me my time back. I am under no obligation to continue wasting your time. Who cares what the interviewer thinks here? You already (at least mentally) rejected them, so why should I care whether they would've said yes or no? I wouldn't personally walk out for this reason, but things don't change when there are no consequences.
sonnyblarney 7y ago
White-boarding is not silly and it's why the best companies in the world do it.
- ravenstine 7y ago
  Define "best". Not everyone wants to work for Google, Facebook, Microsoft, etc.
  - sonnyblarney 7y ago
    Whether or not 'everyone' wants to work there is not hugely material. They, and others that do the white-boarding, are 'the best'. They have loads of talent, operational efficiency, ship tons of great products with great innovations. White-boarding done appropriately is an excellent means to develop an understanding of people's aptitudes in a short period of time. Here is an example of a Google white boarding interview, it's excellent in many ways: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKu_SEDAykw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKu_SEDAykw

ravenstine 7y ago

> It's a pretty standard thing to do in an interview... I'm not interested at working for standard companies. :) But everyone is different. If whiteboarding is someone's thing, the more power to them. > walking out of an interview after someone's already blocked time for you because you think whiteboarding is silly is even more silly than whiteboarding is If there was a misunderstanding where they blocked out time in an interview for whiteboarding, I wouldn't be rude and refuse in person. What I do is ask in the phone screening or the first engineering interview about whether the technical interview would involve whiteboarding or brain teasers. If the answer is yes, I politely end the interview process. That way their time is wasted minimally. However, I have no qualms about walking out of an interview that involves brain teasers. > If I were the interviewer I'd be concerned that you can't be even a little bit flexible with things that you personally don't like. Interviewing is a two-way street. How about you be a little bit flexible and not make me do something that you personally like? No? Yeah, I didn't think so. I'll just work for companies that don't do whiteboarding in interviews, which are a dime a dozen. Yes, that was a bit crass, but it amazes me how people in the position of interviewing believe that interviewers should care about whether they're concerned over something.

binarytox1n 7y ago
As a hiring manager I would take a refusal to whiteboard or participate in an in-person coding problem as a sign that the candidate knew they were not qualified to write code and therefore declined so as not to waste anyone's time. I'm sure that doesn't matter to you as you don't want to work at standard companies anyway, but I have seen plenty of people fail to solve fizz buzz who had the nerve to show up for a Senior Dev role and therefore I will always ask my candidates to write code in front of me. Anyone can copy and paste their way into an active looking github profile, much fewer can talk me through their thought process as they solve a real problem that I have given them to solve.
- ravenstine 7y ago
  If all I had to do was a problem like fizz buzz, I'd probably go ahead and do it. In my experience, most coding challenges that are in-person or take-home are more involved than that Fizz buzz, taking an hour or more. I can't think of a single coding challenge I did in the last 6 months that didn't involve either building a full application or something with complicated or game-like logic. The closest thing to fizz buzz level of simplicity might have been the custom file/directory system I had to work on, but even that was more involved and nuanced than writing fizz buzz.

taormina 7y ago

Hey, interviewing is a two-way street. I'd love it if the candidates that know they don't want the job halfway through told me so and gave me my time back. I am under no obligation to continue wasting your time. Who cares what the interviewer thinks here? You already (at least mentally) rejected them, so why should I care whether they would've said yes or no? I wouldn't personally walk out for this reason, but things don't change when there are no consequences.

sonnyblarney 7y ago

White-boarding is not silly and it's why the best companies in the world do it.

ravenstine 7y ago
Define "best". Not everyone wants to work for Google, Facebook, Microsoft, etc.
- sonnyblarney 7y ago
  Whether or not 'everyone' wants to work there is not hugely material. They, and others that do the white-boarding, are 'the best'. They have loads of talent, operational efficiency, ship tons of great products with great innovations. White-boarding done appropriately is an excellent means to develop an understanding of people's aptitudes in a short period of time. Here is an example of a Google white boarding interview, it's excellent in many ways: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKu_SEDAykw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKu_SEDAykw