5 ms·

Kickstarter will not voluntarily recognize its employee union

38 points by moate 7y ago

burntoutcase 7y ago
If Kickstarter will not voluntarily recognize the union, then the union should go on strike and remain on strike until Kickstarter recognizes them.
- moate 7y ago
  Well yea, they're going to have a ton of options once organization is complete. I think most of the CEO's comments about why they're not recognizing the union feel pretty standard from the management's standpoint.
- glerk 7y ago
  Kickstarter could give a bonus to everyone who does not join the strike, then fire everyone else and replace them. Sure, it could end up being more costly, but there are options.
  - CryptoPunk 7y ago
    The labor laws prevent them from doing that. It's this lack of contract liberty for one side of the negotiations between unions and employers what makes the effect of unions harmful.
  - moate 7y ago
    I have a feeling that a company like Kickstarter making a move like that isn't just "costly". Seems more like mutually assured destruction. The PR fallout of a move like that is going to cause some serious hiring problems going forward. Plus the loss of domain experience alone would be massive.
867567838694 7y ago
The sad part is that someone thinks that starting a union is going to make anything better. If they unionize it's just an early death rattle for Kickstarter. I know they've got some shit going on, but this just adds gas to the fire.
- moate 7y ago
  I think we're seeing the start of a push for Unionization in the tech sector. The old concepts of what a Union is supposed to be are starting to change, and the whole "power to the individual" culture in the industry is starting to lose some of its shine. I don't see how labor organizing, in either this specific case or generally in the industry, is a bad thing. Yes, it makes it harder for kickstarter management, but that doesn't mean they'll crumble.
  - 867567838694 7y ago
    The concepts of unions aren't changing. Unions as a whole are shrinking because the "power of all" has been found out to be bullshit. New sectors unionize and find out they make just as much money but are now shoe horned into group think and pay losing the ability to thrive as an individual which eventually just results in the lowering of quality, expectations and results. I don't know of a single good example of unionization in the tech sector or in fact any new sector in the last 20 years that has resulted in positive outcomes. I'd love to see an example if there is.
    - moate 7y ago
      If everyone thinks they're the magical special worker who can command the top tier of their sector's pay scale, then no, unions don't work. However, that's statistically impossible. Most people are, by their nature, average. You might lower your ceiling in the union, but you also might raise your floor. This is of course assuming that a union is even involved in wage negotiations at all. It's also possible that you just have a trade organization that can exert pressure on the organization in other ways, and focus more on "quality of life" issues that most tech people are actually concerned about.
      - 867567838694 7y ago
        I'm still waiting for an example of a sector that has benefited from newly becoming union? So far as far as I can tell every example is nothing but a billboard for "DO NOT ENTER".
duxup 7y ago
It would be interesting exactly what sort of union some tech worker groups are planning on working on / how they think it would operate. My experience with US unions is that they're largely just another layer of bureaucracy that can be as unresponsive as any management structure, and in many cases you can't quit the union in the sense that you still work in the system / rules they negotiate. The reliance on seniority in US unions (granted not all do) tend to result in limited prospects for new people and protections for older workers who often see little value in expanding skills since time alone provides all the protection / advancement they need. Also the exact protections you get from a union are negotiated and not necessarily what you want / expect ...
- gamblor956 7y ago
  Not sure why FUD like this keeps popping up every time a tech company workforce wants to unionize. There are many different types of unions. The types of unions that organize low-wage workers aren't the same unions that organize high-wage workers or workers in talent-based fields like Hollywood, music, etc. Workers choose what they want the union to be, and how it is organized, as part of unionizing.
  - TAForObvReasons 7y ago
    > Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires. s/Socialism/Unions/; s/America/Tech/; s/poor/workers/; s/millionaires/billionaire founders/
    - CryptoPunk 7y ago
      Unions did take root in America. For a time all major industrial sectors were dominated by unions. It resulted in America losing its manufacturing edge and seeing most manufacturing migrate to Asia. The entire passenger rail service also went bankrupt due to the demands of the Brotherhoods, which had a stranglehold on the industry. Today, besides a few notable exceptions like Hollywood and the screen actors guild, unions are only growing in the public sector, and that's because taxpayers are forced to subsidize their inefficiency. Also, socialism did take root in America. Look at the percentage of GDP consumed by government spending since 1900. It's steadily grown, especially on social welfare programs. America paid a very heavy price to gain real world experience with unions/socialism. Let's hope that after paying the price from that century-long mistake, it learns a lesson.

38 points by moate 7y ago

If Kickstarter will not voluntarily recognize the union, then the union should go on strike and remain on strike until Kickstarter recognizes them.

moate 7y ago
Well yea, they're going to have a ton of options once organization is complete. I think most of the CEO's comments about why they're not recognizing the union feel pretty standard from the management's standpoint.
glerk 7y ago
Kickstarter could give a bonus to everyone who does not join the strike, then fire everyone else and replace them. Sure, it could end up being more costly, but there are options.
- CryptoPunk 7y ago
  The labor laws prevent them from doing that. It's this lack of contract liberty for one side of the negotiations between unions and employers what makes the effect of unions harmful.
- moate 7y ago
  I have a feeling that a company like Kickstarter making a move like that isn't just "costly". Seems more like mutually assured destruction. The PR fallout of a move like that is going to cause some serious hiring problems going forward. Plus the loss of domain experience alone would be massive.

867567838694 7y ago

The sad part is that someone thinks that starting a union is going to make anything better. If they unionize it's just an early death rattle for Kickstarter. I know they've got some shit going on, but this just adds gas to the fire.

moate 7y ago
I think we're seeing the start of a push for Unionization in the tech sector. The old concepts of what a Union is supposed to be are starting to change, and the whole "power to the individual" culture in the industry is starting to lose some of its shine. I don't see how labor organizing, in either this specific case or generally in the industry, is a bad thing. Yes, it makes it harder for kickstarter management, but that doesn't mean they'll crumble.
- 867567838694 7y ago
  The concepts of unions aren't changing. Unions as a whole are shrinking because the "power of all" has been found out to be bullshit. New sectors unionize and find out they make just as much money but are now shoe horned into group think and pay losing the ability to thrive as an individual which eventually just results in the lowering of quality, expectations and results. I don't know of a single good example of unionization in the tech sector or in fact any new sector in the last 20 years that has resulted in positive outcomes. I'd love to see an example if there is.
  - moate 7y ago
    If everyone thinks they're the magical special worker who can command the top tier of their sector's pay scale, then no, unions don't work. However, that's statistically impossible. Most people are, by their nature, average. You might lower your ceiling in the union, but you also might raise your floor. This is of course assuming that a union is even involved in wage negotiations at all. It's also possible that you just have a trade organization that can exert pressure on the organization in other ways, and focus more on "quality of life" issues that most tech people are actually concerned about.
    - 867567838694 7y ago
      I'm still waiting for an example of a sector that has benefited from newly becoming union? So far as far as I can tell every example is nothing but a billboard for "DO NOT ENTER".

duxup 7y ago

It would be interesting exactly what sort of union some tech worker groups are planning on working on / how they think it would operate. My experience with US unions is that they're largely just another layer of bureaucracy that can be as unresponsive as any management structure, and in many cases you can't quit the union in the sense that you still work in the system / rules they negotiate. The reliance on seniority in US unions (granted not all do) tend to result in limited prospects for new people and protections for older workers who often see little value in expanding skills since time alone provides all the protection / advancement they need. Also the exact protections you get from a union are negotiated and not necessarily what you want / expect ...

gamblor956 7y ago
Not sure why FUD like this keeps popping up every time a tech company workforce wants to unionize. There are many different types of unions. The types of unions that organize low-wage workers aren't the same unions that organize high-wage workers or workers in talent-based fields like Hollywood, music, etc. Workers choose what they want the union to be, and how it is organized, as part of unionizing.
- TAForObvReasons 7y ago
  > Socialism never took root in America because the poor see themselves not as an exploited proletariat but as temporarily embarrassed millionaires. s/Socialism/Unions/; s/America/Tech/; s/poor/workers/; s/millionaires/billionaire founders/
  - CryptoPunk 7y ago
    Unions did take root in America. For a time all major industrial sectors were dominated by unions. It resulted in America losing its manufacturing edge and seeing most manufacturing migrate to Asia. The entire passenger rail service also went bankrupt due to the demands of the Brotherhoods, which had a stranglehold on the industry. Today, besides a few notable exceptions like Hollywood and the screen actors guild, unions are only growing in the public sector, and that's because taxpayers are forced to subsidize their inefficiency. Also, socialism did take root in America. Look at the percentage of GDP consumed by government spending since 1900. It's steadily grown, especially on social welfare programs. America paid a very heavy price to gain real world experience with unions/socialism. Let's hope that after paying the price from that century-long mistake, it learns a lesson.