6 ms·

I'm punching in and out every day at work / in the home office. Either on a terminal or in the web browser. Best thing ever, takes 15 seconds a day. Being call

by JanSt 7y ago

I'm punching in and out every day at work / in the home office. Either on a terminal or in the web browser. Best thing ever, takes 15 seconds a day. Being called at home (when not working) because of an emergency? At least 2 hours are added to my timesheet, even if I solve the problem in 5 minutes, so I only get called if it's really important. Adds a lot of sanity and stops abuse. We are very productive because we actually get to relax from work.

sonnyblarney 7y ago
That's great, but would be a contravention this new law apparently. The law doesn't want to know how much you bill or how much is allocated, but how much you actually work. I the context of labour, surely it makes sense, but there, most hours are logged. Outside of that it gets a little harder.
- JanSt 7y ago
  I'm not a contractor, I'm actually tracking the time I'm working.
  - sonnyblarney 7y ago
    "At least 2 hours are added to my timesheet, even if I solve the problem in 5 minutes," You explicitly stated you'd get tracked for 2 hours for 5 minutes of work. This differential - which you must have brought up for a reason - is specifically not what the law is trying to address.
    - JanSt 7y ago
      You should read up on the ruling. Every country has to implement it's own law. It's allowed to include specific regulations on these corner cases. (FYI, I'm still tracking the exact time, but the time I have to work gets reduced from 38 to 36 hours)
    - usrusr 7y ago
      That differential is also specifically not what the ruling is trying to prevent. What's off the table with this ruling is that a timesheet does not exist, because "we're all friends here, we trust our employees (to work themselves to exhaustion out of fear)"
- zaarn 7y ago
  It's fully on the employer if they log more time than you actually worked, the issue that was addressed with this ruling was people who'd clock out and then continue to work or where there is no clock and people simply write down how long they worked. The issue the court had was that if you write it down then there is the possibility that you worked overtime but didn't actually write that or your employer changed it. If start and end of work time are accurately tracked then you can sue them for not paying you overtime.
  - adwn 7y ago
    > the issue that was addressed with this ruling was people who'd clock out and then continue to work or where there is no clock and people simply write down how long they worked No, this ruling cannot prevent this practice at all. How could it, without a government official standing watch?
    - rat9988 7y ago
      How many European countries don't do random control?
    - michaelmrose 7y ago
      You rely on employees or former employees raising an issue and investigating. There is little money to be saved by not paying bob for 15 minutes that one time. Companies that abuse this do so pervasively and consistently providing ample evidence of their misdeeds. Alternatively employees can raise the matter in court where the additional incentive of money paid to settle the claim makes it worthy of a lawyer handling the matter purely based on expectation of obtaining a cut of the money.
    - zaarn 7y ago
      It's not uncommon to have random samples taken by officials. They'll just show up, make a list of everyone clocked in and then interview a few (or all) workers. If they find someone who isn't clocked in, that is a big issue for the employer. Plus, accurate records are a good basis for any lawsuit in case an employee claims they worked unpaid overtime.
kerng 7y ago
Do you get paid per hour or a lump sum each week/month?
- JanSt 7y ago
  Lump sum every month, 38h / week

by JanSt 7y ago

sonnyblarney 7y ago

That's great, but would be a contravention this new law apparently. The law doesn't want to know how much you bill or how much is allocated, but how much you actually work. I the context of labour, surely it makes sense, but there, most hours are logged. Outside of that it gets a little harder.

JanSt 7y ago
I'm not a contractor, I'm actually tracking the time I'm working.
- sonnyblarney 7y ago
  "At least 2 hours are added to my timesheet, even if I solve the problem in 5 minutes," You explicitly stated you'd get tracked for 2 hours for 5 minutes of work. This differential - which you must have brought up for a reason - is specifically not what the law is trying to address.
  - JanSt 7y ago
    You should read up on the ruling. Every country has to implement it's own law. It's allowed to include specific regulations on these corner cases. (FYI, I'm still tracking the exact time, but the time I have to work gets reduced from 38 to 36 hours)
  - usrusr 7y ago
    That differential is also specifically not what the ruling is trying to prevent. What's off the table with this ruling is that a timesheet does not exist, because "we're all friends here, we trust our employees (to work themselves to exhaustion out of fear)"
zaarn 7y ago
It's fully on the employer if they log more time than you actually worked, the issue that was addressed with this ruling was people who'd clock out and then continue to work or where there is no clock and people simply write down how long they worked. The issue the court had was that if you write it down then there is the possibility that you worked overtime but didn't actually write that or your employer changed it. If start and end of work time are accurately tracked then you can sue them for not paying you overtime.
- adwn 7y ago
  > the issue that was addressed with this ruling was people who'd clock out and then continue to work or where there is no clock and people simply write down how long they worked No, this ruling cannot prevent this practice at all. How could it, without a government official standing watch?
  - rat9988 7y ago
    How many European countries don't do random control?
  - michaelmrose 7y ago
    You rely on employees or former employees raising an issue and investigating. There is little money to be saved by not paying bob for 15 minutes that one time. Companies that abuse this do so pervasively and consistently providing ample evidence of their misdeeds. Alternatively employees can raise the matter in court where the additional incentive of money paid to settle the claim makes it worthy of a lawyer handling the matter purely based on expectation of obtaining a cut of the money.
  - zaarn 7y ago
    It's not uncommon to have random samples taken by officials. They'll just show up, make a list of everyone clocked in and then interview a few (or all) workers. If they find someone who isn't clocked in, that is a big issue for the employer. Plus, accurate records are a good basis for any lawsuit in case an employee claims they worked unpaid overtime.

kerng 7y ago

Do you get paid per hour or a lump sum each week/month?

JanSt 7y ago
Lump sum every month, 38h / week