4 ms·

Which was essentially the point of the gp comment .... Israel gets special treatment in the US ... even when a spinoff from their secret service is caught hacki

Which was essentially the point of the gp comment .... Israel gets special treatment in the US ... even when a spinoff from their secret service is caught hacking people's phones worldwide

mirimir 7y ago
Not really. The comment was about HN policy, not US policy. And yes, Israel is the primary US proxy in the Middle East. And is widely supported in the US. So of course they get lots of slack. There's little doubt that the NSA has some role in this, or is at least OK with it.
- Udik 7y ago
  > Israel is the primary US proxy in the Middle East Frankly, it looks like the opposite. The US are the primary Israel's proxy in the West. Israel is causing the US much more trouble than gain in the Middle East.
  - mirimir 7y ago
    That's implausible. Not impossible, I guess. But it's hard to see a mechanism. I don't pretend to know what US goals really are in the Middle East. Maybe nobody does. So assessing trouble vs gain is iffy at best.
    - TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
      The US is a huge ally of Israel but for very strange reasons. For one, it has a lot of Jewish people. But the biggest pro-Israel force in the US is actually the minority (still more than there are Jewish people) of fundamentalist Christians who believe that Israel's existence helps the fulfillment of biblical prophecy of the new temple in Jerusalem and the Rapture. It might sound like I'm just being fantastical, but it's sadly very real: https://www.vox.com/2017/12/12/16761540/jerusalem-israel-embassy-palestinians-trump-evangelicals https://www.vox.com/2017/12/12/16761540/jerusalem-israel-emb...
      - Udik 7y ago
        I've heard the Evangelical Christians mentioned very often in relation to their support for Israel. However I'm not fully convinced that they're the major force behind the US's unwavering support. For example, the article you linked states that only 53% of evangelicals actually support the recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital: it's not an overwhelming majority. Meanwhile, 63% of all Americans oppose it, so it's overall an unpopular move: why was it made then? Also, the expert interviewed in the article says that "the gathering of all the Jews in exile to the Holy Land is a prerequisite for these events unfolding" (the end of times, etc.). But then, absurdity for absurdity, why don't the evangelicals call for the Jews to be expelled from the US, which would advance the evangelical cause even more? And more, to a Christian fundamentalist, a non-converted Jew is basically an infidel, so you'd expect them to be regarded with suspicion and contempt- which doesn't seem to happen. The Evangelicals then seem to entertain their beliefs only insofar that is beneficial to Israel. Isn't that strange?
        TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
        > And more, to a Christian fundamentalist, a non-converted Jew is basically an infidel, so you'd expect them to be regarded with suspicion and contempt- which doesn't seem to happen. It does happen. The US right simultaneously loves Israel and isn't particularly fond of Jews.
jlawson 7y ago
Allied countries get treated with less suspicion than enemy countries - it's not complicated or unjustified. In one case, the company might be doing something wrong to consumers. In the other case, the enemy government might be making military advances against our whole country. If a Canadian or British company did the WhatsApp thing they'd get similar treatment. It's no that Israel is individually "special", it's that they're in the large group of ally countries to the US.
- baroffoos 7y ago
  Any government creating software to spy on peoples phones is an enemy government.
  - jlawson 7y ago
    Wiping away the out nuance from words to remove important factual distinctions is not advancing the conversation.

Which was essentially the point of the gp comment .... Israel gets special treatment in the US ... even when a spinoff from their secret service is caught hacking people's phones worldwide

mirimir 7y ago

Not really. The comment was about HN policy, not US policy. And yes, Israel is the primary US proxy in the Middle East. And is widely supported in the US. So of course they get lots of slack. There's little doubt that the NSA has some role in this, or is at least OK with it.

Udik 7y ago
> Israel is the primary US proxy in the Middle East Frankly, it looks like the opposite. The US are the primary Israel's proxy in the West. Israel is causing the US much more trouble than gain in the Middle East.
- mirimir 7y ago
  That's implausible. Not impossible, I guess. But it's hard to see a mechanism. I don't pretend to know what US goals really are in the Middle East. Maybe nobody does. So assessing trouble vs gain is iffy at best.
  - TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
    The US is a huge ally of Israel but for very strange reasons. For one, it has a lot of Jewish people. But the biggest pro-Israel force in the US is actually the minority (still more than there are Jewish people) of fundamentalist Christians who believe that Israel's existence helps the fulfillment of biblical prophecy of the new temple in Jerusalem and the Rapture. It might sound like I'm just being fantastical, but it's sadly very real: https://www.vox.com/2017/12/12/16761540/jerusalem-israel-embassy-palestinians-trump-evangelicals https://www.vox.com/2017/12/12/16761540/jerusalem-israel-emb...
    - Udik 7y ago
      I've heard the Evangelical Christians mentioned very often in relation to their support for Israel. However I'm not fully convinced that they're the major force behind the US's unwavering support. For example, the article you linked states that only 53% of evangelicals actually support the recognition of Jerusalem as Israel's capital: it's not an overwhelming majority. Meanwhile, 63% of all Americans oppose it, so it's overall an unpopular move: why was it made then? Also, the expert interviewed in the article says that "the gathering of all the Jews in exile to the Holy Land is a prerequisite for these events unfolding" (the end of times, etc.). But then, absurdity for absurdity, why don't the evangelicals call for the Jews to be expelled from the US, which would advance the evangelical cause even more? And more, to a Christian fundamentalist, a non-converted Jew is basically an infidel, so you'd expect them to be regarded with suspicion and contempt- which doesn't seem to happen. The Evangelicals then seem to entertain their beliefs only insofar that is beneficial to Israel. Isn't that strange?
      - TazeTSchnitzel 7y ago
        > And more, to a Christian fundamentalist, a non-converted Jew is basically an infidel, so you'd expect them to be regarded with suspicion and contempt- which doesn't seem to happen. It does happen. The US right simultaneously loves Israel and isn't particularly fond of Jews.

jlawson 7y ago

Allied countries get treated with less suspicion than enemy countries - it's not complicated or unjustified. In one case, the company might be doing something wrong to consumers. In the other case, the enemy government might be making military advances against our whole country. If a Canadian or British company did the WhatsApp thing they'd get similar treatment. It's no that Israel is individually "special", it's that they're in the large group of ally countries to the US.

baroffoos 7y ago
Any government creating software to spy on peoples phones is an enemy government.
- jlawson 7y ago
  Wiping away the out nuance from words to remove important factual distinctions is not advancing the conversation.