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It's frankly bizarre that Oracle would sue Google over Java licensing, and then expect an organization with Google employees on the board and deeply involved at

It's frankly bizarre that Oracle would sue Google over Java licensing, and then expect an organization with Google employees on the board and deeply involved at many levels to gladly accept their stewardship of Java. Oracle seems to think that everyone should commit code to independent Java repositories, improving the Java ecosystem, and furthermore pay Oracle for the privilege of improving Oracle's IP. Oracle not only fails to grasp the point of open source, they have it completely backwards.

rbanffy 16y ago
Oracle's position is understandable. An Apache licensed Java runtime would possibly deny them of a substantial amount of profits it currently derives from J2ME licensing (it comes with every phone). Oracle is not as prone to underpants gnome-like business plans as Sun was. Too bad their product line is the antonym of cool.
- mbreese 16y ago
  Both positions are understandable. I'm just surprised that Oracle thought that they could play both sides like this. Pre-Sun they were all "yeah, what ASF said! Open licensing!". Post-Sun they take all of the historical Sun positions. Again, it's understandable, but why are they so surprised that the ASF would respond like this? They are asking everyone to play a game using weighted dice. If you don't like Oracle's rules, you can go home. So how can they be surprised that ASF actually left?
  - rbanffy 16y ago
    I am not surprised Oracle thought they could. Oracle hasn't faced much opposition in its corporate history - their partners usually cave to whatever rules Oracle demands them to play with.
  - bad_user 16y ago
    it's understandable No matter how awful a certain action gets by moral standards, everybody has understandable motives or urges ... rape, murder, backstabbing allies, you name it. What isn't understandable is how companies can act hypocritical and get away with it, when your friends wouldn't. That's a huge and hurtful double standard, especially since in the US companies have the same legal status as people, which is a huge advantage for them. Would you trust to do business with, or be friends with, or just tolerate a person that acts like Oracle does?
    - shadowfox 16y ago
      > What isn't understandable is how companies can act hypocritical and get away with it, when your friends wouldn't. Maybe because the company is not your friend? You are paying them money (in general) for services and you are getting services. If they do 'bad things' to you, you should consider switching to something more appropriate. > especially since in the US companies have the same legal status as people, which is a huge advantage for them. Corporations don't have same legal status as people (irrespective of the meme). They probably have more rights than you want them to have, but that doesn't make them a person
      - bad_user 16y ago
        > If they do 'bad things' to you, you should consider switching to something more appropriate. Well yeah, that's what I'm saying: there's some trust involved when dealing with companies, like will Oracle pull the plug on the platforms I'm building my business on? And it makes perfect sense to switch to something else in such a case. So when Oracle acts a certain way, then backs away when in control forgetting their own complaints, how can you trust them after that?

rbanffy 16y ago

Oracle's position is understandable. An Apache licensed Java runtime would possibly deny them of a substantial amount of profits it currently derives from J2ME licensing (it comes with every phone). Oracle is not as prone to underpants gnome-like business plans as Sun was. Too bad their product line is the antonym of cool.

mbreese 16y ago
Both positions are understandable. I'm just surprised that Oracle thought that they could play both sides like this. Pre-Sun they were all "yeah, what ASF said! Open licensing!". Post-Sun they take all of the historical Sun positions. Again, it's understandable, but why are they so surprised that the ASF would respond like this? They are asking everyone to play a game using weighted dice. If you don't like Oracle's rules, you can go home. So how can they be surprised that ASF actually left?
- rbanffy 16y ago
  I am not surprised Oracle thought they could. Oracle hasn't faced much opposition in its corporate history - their partners usually cave to whatever rules Oracle demands them to play with.
- bad_user 16y ago
  it's understandable No matter how awful a certain action gets by moral standards, everybody has understandable motives or urges ... rape, murder, backstabbing allies, you name it. What isn't understandable is how companies can act hypocritical and get away with it, when your friends wouldn't. That's a huge and hurtful double standard, especially since in the US companies have the same legal status as people, which is a huge advantage for them. Would you trust to do business with, or be friends with, or just tolerate a person that acts like Oracle does?
  - shadowfox 16y ago
    > What isn't understandable is how companies can act hypocritical and get away with it, when your friends wouldn't. Maybe because the company is not your friend? You are paying them money (in general) for services and you are getting services. If they do 'bad things' to you, you should consider switching to something more appropriate. > especially since in the US companies have the same legal status as people, which is a huge advantage for them. Corporations don't have same legal status as people (irrespective of the meme). They probably have more rights than you want them to have, but that doesn't make them a person
    - bad_user 16y ago
      > If they do 'bad things' to you, you should consider switching to something more appropriate. Well yeah, that's what I'm saying: there's some trust involved when dealing with companies, like will Oracle pull the plug on the platforms I'm building my business on? And it makes perfect sense to switch to something else in such a case. So when Oracle acts a certain way, then backs away when in control forgetting their own complaints, how can you trust them after that?