4 ms·

It's almost like they give more of a shit about people posting things on the internet than some looney slaughtering 51 people.

EdwardDiego 7y ago
That looney was radicalised on the Internet, by a subset of Internet culture.
- hyperdunc 7y ago
  According to his manifesto the largest factor was a visit to France, not online activity.
  - EdwardDiego 7y ago
    His manifesto also included memes and copy pasta.He listened to meme music as he drove to the mosque, he said "Subscribe to Pewdiepie" before he shot the first victim. The fact that he was a member of an online community that considered his views normal is extremely significant.
    - scottlocklin 7y ago
      Oh yeah? How about the fact that he drove a car, or ate meat or spoke english or traveled a lot? The "online radicalization" thing is complete and total bullshit: it's an excuse to ramp up the totalitarian surveillance state in a more obvious way than the "war on terror" -now it's a war on people who read things on the internet. Magic internet forums might make me into a terrorist ... or a hacker; better put me in prison!
      - EdwardDiego 7y ago
        > Magic internet forums might make me into a terrorist He found an echo chamber that reinforced his beliefs, which happened to be filled with internet edgelords that egged him on.
  - meheleventyone 7y ago
    And you don’t think his manifesto is propaganda rather than a attempt at reliable narration? Coming to “the truth” seeing the reality of the world at first hand is a much more stirring story than being radicalised by lies on the Internet. Plus it fits directly into all the other racist propaganda put out by white supremacists about the state of Europe and France in particular.
- sadris 7y ago
  He explicitly said visiting Paris and Turkey radicalized him.
  - pryce 7y ago
    He also explicitly said he'd learned his radical ideas from 8chan in his final post there; and furthermore, there's good reason to believe his selection of travel destinations was already motivated by his far-right worldview of a 'Muslims-vs-the-West' conflict. Lastly, it is a mistake to take a document intended as propaganda directly at face value; for instance, his claims of "ecofascism" on inspection seem to be more intentionally selected to inspire infighting between political left and right (one of his aims he claims to have regarding gun legislation) rather than motivated by any genuine concern for the environment; for example, his manifesto was devoid of environmental concerns unless we were to first concede a fascist obsession with racial birthrate disparites is an "ecological" concern.
dredds 7y ago
- he posted on sites which were considered targets. - he posted a manifesto online (it's been censored in NZ) - he livestreamed the act (also censored) - his attack has been referenced by subsequent attacks (this was his goal) - he wants to use the courts as a platform (our media has voluntarily agreed to censor proceedings) - he said his rights are being infringed by not having phone and other communication (his "rights" need to be weighed against all the dead and injured) - other groups want to politicize and publicize his agenda (should they be censored?) His efforts to use the web as a platform for inciting hate and further violence led to our government's response. If the US President incites hate and violence via Twitter we would be having the same discussion no?
- 55555 7y ago
  The idea of censoring his manifesto is strange to me. You'd think people would just want to argue the points brought up in his manifesto on their merits and win mindshare that way.
  - dredds 7y ago
    We heard he cites Anders Breivik's manifesto in his own (i haven't read them) so the domino effect of self-radicalization is what concerns them i think. A bit like how we have laws against reporting on suicides cos they determined that suicides statistically increased when they were widely publicized in the past.
  - roca 7y ago
    How well is that working against the flat-earth and anti-vax communities?
    - makomk 7y ago
      Well, a good chunk of the US anti-vax movement seems to be ultra-Orthodox Jews: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/14/nyregion/measles-vaccine-orthodox-jews.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/14/nyregion/measles-vaccine-... Their religous beliefs don't permit them to have unfettered Internet access because it'd expose them to corrupting ideas (like, say, the idea that vaccines are safe).

EdwardDiego 7y ago

That looney was radicalised on the Internet, by a subset of Internet culture.

hyperdunc 7y ago
According to his manifesto the largest factor was a visit to France, not online activity.
- EdwardDiego 7y ago
  His manifesto also included memes and copy pasta.He listened to meme music as he drove to the mosque, he said "Subscribe to Pewdiepie" before he shot the first victim. The fact that he was a member of an online community that considered his views normal is extremely significant.
  - scottlocklin 7y ago
    Oh yeah? How about the fact that he drove a car, or ate meat or spoke english or traveled a lot? The "online radicalization" thing is complete and total bullshit: it's an excuse to ramp up the totalitarian surveillance state in a more obvious way than the "war on terror" -now it's a war on people who read things on the internet. Magic internet forums might make me into a terrorist ... or a hacker; better put me in prison!
    - EdwardDiego 7y ago
      > Magic internet forums might make me into a terrorist He found an echo chamber that reinforced his beliefs, which happened to be filled with internet edgelords that egged him on.
- meheleventyone 7y ago
  And you don’t think his manifesto is propaganda rather than a attempt at reliable narration? Coming to “the truth” seeing the reality of the world at first hand is a much more stirring story than being radicalised by lies on the Internet. Plus it fits directly into all the other racist propaganda put out by white supremacists about the state of Europe and France in particular.
sadris 7y ago
He explicitly said visiting Paris and Turkey radicalized him.
- pryce 7y ago
  He also explicitly said he'd learned his radical ideas from 8chan in his final post there; and furthermore, there's good reason to believe his selection of travel destinations was already motivated by his far-right worldview of a 'Muslims-vs-the-West' conflict. Lastly, it is a mistake to take a document intended as propaganda directly at face value; for instance, his claims of "ecofascism" on inspection seem to be more intentionally selected to inspire infighting between political left and right (one of his aims he claims to have regarding gun legislation) rather than motivated by any genuine concern for the environment; for example, his manifesto was devoid of environmental concerns unless we were to first concede a fascist obsession with racial birthrate disparites is an "ecological" concern.

dredds 7y ago

- he posted on sites which were considered targets. - he posted a manifesto online (it's been censored in NZ) - he livestreamed the act (also censored) - his attack has been referenced by subsequent attacks (this was his goal) - he wants to use the courts as a platform (our media has voluntarily agreed to censor proceedings) - he said his rights are being infringed by not having phone and other communication (his "rights" need to be weighed against all the dead and injured) - other groups want to politicize and publicize his agenda (should they be censored?) His efforts to use the web as a platform for inciting hate and further violence led to our government's response. If the US President incites hate and violence via Twitter we would be having the same discussion no?

55555 7y ago
The idea of censoring his manifesto is strange to me. You'd think people would just want to argue the points brought up in his manifesto on their merits and win mindshare that way.
- dredds 7y ago
  We heard he cites Anders Breivik's manifesto in his own (i haven't read them) so the domino effect of self-radicalization is what concerns them i think. A bit like how we have laws against reporting on suicides cos they determined that suicides statistically increased when they were widely publicized in the past.
- roca 7y ago
  How well is that working against the flat-earth and anti-vax communities?
  - makomk 7y ago
    Well, a good chunk of the US anti-vax movement seems to be ultra-Orthodox Jews: https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/14/nyregion/measles-vaccine-orthodox-jews.html https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/14/nyregion/measles-vaccine-... Their religous beliefs don't permit them to have unfettered Internet access because it'd expose them to corrupting ideas (like, say, the idea that vaccines are safe).