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Do you think induced demand might be a problem? It's been shown that by increasing the size of highways, for example, you increase traffic: https://www.wired.c

Do you think induced demand might be a problem? It's been shown that by increasing the size of highways, for example, you increase traffic: https://www.wired.com/2014/06/wuwt-traffic-induced-demand/ https://www.wired.com/2014/06/wuwt-traffic-induced-demand/

nordsieck 7y ago
> Do you think induced demand might be a problem? It's been shown that by increasing the size of highways, for example, you increase traffic The thing with induced demand is, everyone admits that it's possible to out build induced demand - it's just impractical to do so, so it rarely happens. The housing equivalent of induced demand (people who live in suburbs moving to the city) is a very real phenomenon, but it's inherently self-regulating. If people avoid living in the city because of cost, they'll stop moving in when the price stops coming down. Luckily for housing, while the main reason we don't have infinite transportation infrastructure is cost, the main reason we don't have infinite housing is regulation which is inexpensive (in theory) to remove.
karanbhangui 7y ago
There are arguments that induced demand is a myth: https://www.cato.org/blog/debunking-induced-demand-myth https://www.cato.org/blog/debunking-induced-demand-myth
xvedejas 7y ago
I think induced demand is real, but it's a second-order effect. So while building one unit might attract an additional 0.1 people to an area (for example), it's not going to attract more people than it houses. So building more housing is still the right thing to do to lower prices. Even if you don't get perfect efficiency of 1 person's housing needs met per 1 unit built, meeting the needs of 0.9 people is still pretty good.
forrestthewoods 7y ago
Induced demand means that wider roads don’t reduce latency (traffic). But it does increase throughout (cars per hour). More housing may not result in an equivalent drop in price. But it will increase the number of people with access to economic opportunity. Suffice to say I’m in favor of increasing throughout. For both transportation and housing.
coding123 7y ago
nah, it's actually the number of whole foods, targets and pf changs that induces demand in an area.
stale2002 7y ago
"induced demand" basically means that you make a place so awesome to live, that even more people want to move there! Like yeah, maybe. But if a place is so awesome, then shouldn't we try to let more people live there? Shouldn't we trying to continue to do things that make this city awesome?
jdavis703 7y ago
Induced demand in itself is not a bad thing. The reason why induced highway demand is almost always bad is because expanding highways rarely results in faster trips after a few years. But a public transit expansion on the other hand can move many, many more people for decades before the induced demand causes the transit system to choke up. Likewise for housing, induced demand isn't that bad. Most people will only ever have one house. In the case of a highway expansion, people can easily take multiple auto trips that they'd otherwise avoid given congestion. Unless the price of housing craters, I doubt most people will start consuming multiple homes.
wahern 7y ago
Induced demand is generally found in situations where you're giving something away below cost or especially for free. Highways are the classic example of induced demand precisely because they're free to use. Induced demand in the context of market-rate housing is highly speculative and if it exists at all likely to be very limited. It's sort of non-sensical, like saying that demand for the original iPhone (or any new product) is "induced demand", either because it was new or because people wanted to be like other people. That's not the kind of phenomenon the concept of induced demand is trying to describe.
oftenwrong 7y ago
Latent demand gated by price + decreased price = induced demand It applies to everything, from housing to hamburgers. I have a hamburger restaurant where I sell hamburgers for $5. Some people buy hamburgers, and some people will not buy hamburgers. Some of the people who will not buy hamburgers would buy a hamburger if the price was lower. If I drop the price, I will induce demand.

nordsieck 7y ago

> Do you think induced demand might be a problem? It's been shown that by increasing the size of highways, for example, you increase traffic The thing with induced demand is, everyone admits that it's possible to out build induced demand - it's just impractical to do so, so it rarely happens. The housing equivalent of induced demand (people who live in suburbs moving to the city) is a very real phenomenon, but it's inherently self-regulating. If people avoid living in the city because of cost, they'll stop moving in when the price stops coming down. Luckily for housing, while the main reason we don't have infinite transportation infrastructure is cost, the main reason we don't have infinite housing is regulation which is inexpensive (in theory) to remove.

karanbhangui 7y ago

There are arguments that induced demand is a myth: https://www.cato.org/blog/debunking-induced-demand-myth https://www.cato.org/blog/debunking-induced-demand-myth

xvedejas 7y ago

I think induced demand is real, but it's a second-order effect. So while building one unit might attract an additional 0.1 people to an area (for example), it's not going to attract more people than it houses. So building more housing is still the right thing to do to lower prices. Even if you don't get perfect efficiency of 1 person's housing needs met per 1 unit built, meeting the needs of 0.9 people is still pretty good.

forrestthewoods 7y ago

Induced demand means that wider roads don’t reduce latency (traffic). But it does increase throughout (cars per hour). More housing may not result in an equivalent drop in price. But it will increase the number of people with access to economic opportunity. Suffice to say I’m in favor of increasing throughout. For both transportation and housing.

coding123 7y ago

nah, it's actually the number of whole foods, targets and pf changs that induces demand in an area.

stale2002 7y ago

"induced demand" basically means that you make a place so awesome to live, that even more people want to move there! Like yeah, maybe. But if a place is so awesome, then shouldn't we try to let more people live there? Shouldn't we trying to continue to do things that make this city awesome?

jdavis703 7y ago

Induced demand in itself is not a bad thing. The reason why induced highway demand is almost always bad is because expanding highways rarely results in faster trips after a few years. But a public transit expansion on the other hand can move many, many more people for decades before the induced demand causes the transit system to choke up. Likewise for housing, induced demand isn't that bad. Most people will only ever have one house. In the case of a highway expansion, people can easily take multiple auto trips that they'd otherwise avoid given congestion. Unless the price of housing craters, I doubt most people will start consuming multiple homes.

wahern 7y ago

Induced demand is generally found in situations where you're giving something away below cost or especially for free. Highways are the classic example of induced demand precisely because they're free to use. Induced demand in the context of market-rate housing is highly speculative and if it exists at all likely to be very limited. It's sort of non-sensical, like saying that demand for the original iPhone (or any new product) is "induced demand", either because it was new or because people wanted to be like other people. That's not the kind of phenomenon the concept of induced demand is trying to describe.

oftenwrong 7y ago

Latent demand gated by price + decreased price = induced demand It applies to everything, from housing to hamburgers. I have a hamburger restaurant where I sell hamburgers for $5. Some people buy hamburgers, and some people will not buy hamburgers. Some of the people who will not buy hamburgers would buy a hamburger if the price was lower. If I drop the price, I will induce demand.