6 ms·

Can anyone stop him? I don't want him to do this. I don't want these tariffs. Does this mean the Republican Party is compliant in this nonsense?

jeffdavis 7y ago
I am, for the most part, a free-trade advocate. But I have been having more and more doubts when it comes to China. Free trade has not made China a more free place. It looks like they are just using their economic power to hurt freedom everywhere.
- tomp 7y ago
  Also, there are many limits to free trade. E.g. constant WTO lawsuits regarding one country subsidizing their own corporations. You could easily claim that all Chinese corporations are state-sponsored...
chrisco255 7y ago
Why should they stop him? Do you trust China? I don't.
swebs 7y ago
I, on the other hand, am glad these tariffs are happening. They've been a long time coming.
- pickle-wizard 7y ago
  I really only have one problem with these tariffs. That Trump didn't get our allies to also raise their tariffs against China.
- justAnotherNET 7y ago
  This 100%. Anyone educated on the issues beyond the surface level propaganda knows this is the right call.
- gscott 7y ago
  I agree. We can't control China's behavior but the tariffs do a good job of controlling our own behavior since they punish us more then China. So if you are single sourcing everything in China you will be punished more then those who have more sources. Challenge is the next President will back right off and we will be where we were before.
  - sonnyblarney 7y ago
    "since they punish us more then China. " No they don't. Most goods from China can be sourced elsewhere, moreover, America has the surpluses to handle some extra cost. China doesn't. They are at the end of their last boom, and in trouble, it's really bad, and this comes at a bad time. This is why China's response to Trump's most recent massive tariffs are much smaller. The US has the upper hand in this, though not blatantly. The sticking point right now is verification: both sides agree that China should stop with the IP theft, but the US does not believe China will actually do anything after the agreement has been signed, and so wants China to change it's laws. China sees this as a breach of sovereignty. So there's a huge face saving problem on China side, and to some extent on the US side with Trump. I think they will work it out actually, a deal will be signed, China will take 'some steps' but they won't really care, Trump will be gone in a few years. I don't think that much will change in the end. But these tariffs are really bad for China.
  - m0zg 7y ago
    Not to worry: looking at the abysmal democratic lineup right now it seems like the next president will be the same as the current one.
  - criddell 7y ago
    I'm not sure I support the wider set of tariffs (I really don't know a lot about the impact of that), but I totally support the banning of buying major telecom equipment from foreign countries.
- chrischen 7y ago
  We don't really source much except cheap labor from China. On the surface it seems like the Chinese make the bulk of the profit off something like an iPhone but really they make very little. In fact China knows this, which is why they've been tariffing iPhones even if they are "exported" from China back to China. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-makes-8-46-from-an-iphone-and-thats-why-u-s-trade-war-is-futile/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-makes-8-46-from-an-iphone...
  - linyu0219 7y ago
    iphone在中国没有关税只有增值税
    - chrischen 7y ago
      Why do they smuggle them across HK then? Why is the iPhone sales price in China higher? On Apple's website currently the Chinese iPhone Xs is about $200 USD more expensive. Is this just tax inclusive?
- robertAngst 7y ago
  Wow that is crazy, I don't usually meet people who like higher taxes. Are you sure you aren't misunderstanding the situation?
hedora 7y ago
Yes, they are compliant. Congress could easily block this, but the senate won’t. Trump is betting that low interest rates will prop up the US economy through the next election cycle. China is betting they won’t. The GOP is betting they can get Trump to “own” any economic fall out from the trade war. (Edit: and you can stop him by voting)
taiwanboy 7y ago
Please don’t. Trump is one of the few people standing up to China, and China is threatening to invade my country, Taiwan. China is building up its naval forces and artificial islands nearby. Xi jing Ping has said unification is ultimate goal and force is an option. US intelligence said recently Beijing is preparing to invade Taiwan. Because of China, Taiwan is barred from attending WHO.
criddell 7y ago
I think this is something most Americans probably support.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
__d 7y ago
I think there are two different philosophies at work here. In one, international trading has built a web of mutual dependencies between countries. When your economic well-being depends on another country, you're less likely to go to war with them. The more inter-dependencies exist, the less likely armed conflict becomes. Countries outside the trading bloc are then suspect: they have nothing to lose in attacking. Attempts to bring outsiders into the bloc via trade agreements, development, loans, etc, are all really part of a defensive security strategy. This is nothing new: rulers have been marrying their children to those of their enemies for the same reasons since forever. The other point of view, which seems dominant within the current US administration, looks at the inter-dependencies of international trade purely as a liability. When the US relies on China to provide it with lots of manufactured goods, that is seen mostly (or solely) as a risk for the US, not as a stabilizing link in a web of mutual dependency. Which is not to say that China (for example) won't try to leverage those dependencies to improve its position, nor to say that the US shouldn't encourage more widespread dependencies so that there's resilience in the system to bad acting on the part of any single player. The point being that detaching from the web of mutual dependency makes you both weaker (in that you can only rely on yourself), and more threatening (since you no longer have anything to lose by attacking). The US, by virtue of its size, can probably most afford to be isolated, but it's not clear to me that it's a good long-term strategy.

jeffdavis 7y ago

I am, for the most part, a free-trade advocate. But I have been having more and more doubts when it comes to China. Free trade has not made China a more free place. It looks like they are just using their economic power to hurt freedom everywhere.

tomp 7y ago
Also, there are many limits to free trade. E.g. constant WTO lawsuits regarding one country subsidizing their own corporations. You could easily claim that all Chinese corporations are state-sponsored...

chrisco255 7y ago

Why should they stop him? Do you trust China? I don't.

swebs 7y ago

I, on the other hand, am glad these tariffs are happening. They've been a long time coming.

pickle-wizard 7y ago
I really only have one problem with these tariffs. That Trump didn't get our allies to also raise their tariffs against China.
justAnotherNET 7y ago
This 100%. Anyone educated on the issues beyond the surface level propaganda knows this is the right call.
gscott 7y ago
I agree. We can't control China's behavior but the tariffs do a good job of controlling our own behavior since they punish us more then China. So if you are single sourcing everything in China you will be punished more then those who have more sources. Challenge is the next President will back right off and we will be where we were before.
- sonnyblarney 7y ago
  "since they punish us more then China. " No they don't. Most goods from China can be sourced elsewhere, moreover, America has the surpluses to handle some extra cost. China doesn't. They are at the end of their last boom, and in trouble, it's really bad, and this comes at a bad time. This is why China's response to Trump's most recent massive tariffs are much smaller. The US has the upper hand in this, though not blatantly. The sticking point right now is verification: both sides agree that China should stop with the IP theft, but the US does not believe China will actually do anything after the agreement has been signed, and so wants China to change it's laws. China sees this as a breach of sovereignty. So there's a huge face saving problem on China side, and to some extent on the US side with Trump. I think they will work it out actually, a deal will be signed, China will take 'some steps' but they won't really care, Trump will be gone in a few years. I don't think that much will change in the end. But these tariffs are really bad for China.
- m0zg 7y ago
  Not to worry: looking at the abysmal democratic lineup right now it seems like the next president will be the same as the current one.
- criddell 7y ago
  I'm not sure I support the wider set of tariffs (I really don't know a lot about the impact of that), but I totally support the banning of buying major telecom equipment from foreign countries.
chrischen 7y ago
We don't really source much except cheap labor from China. On the surface it seems like the Chinese make the bulk of the profit off something like an iPhone but really they make very little. In fact China knows this, which is why they've been tariffing iPhones even if they are "exported" from China back to China. https://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-makes-8-46-from-an-iphone-and-thats-why-u-s-trade-war-is-futile/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/china-makes-8-46-from-an-iphone...
- linyu0219 7y ago
  iphone在中国没有关税只有增值税
  - chrischen 7y ago
    Why do they smuggle them across HK then? Why is the iPhone sales price in China higher? On Apple's website currently the Chinese iPhone Xs is about $200 USD more expensive. Is this just tax inclusive?
robertAngst 7y ago
Wow that is crazy, I don't usually meet people who like higher taxes. Are you sure you aren't misunderstanding the situation?

hedora 7y ago

Yes, they are compliant. Congress could easily block this, but the senate won’t. Trump is betting that low interest rates will prop up the US economy through the next election cycle. China is betting they won’t. The GOP is betting they can get Trump to “own” any economic fall out from the trade war. (Edit: and you can stop him by voting)

taiwanboy 7y ago

Please don’t. Trump is one of the few people standing up to China, and China is threatening to invade my country, Taiwan. China is building up its naval forces and artificial islands nearby. Xi jing Ping has said unification is ultimate goal and force is an option. US intelligence said recently Beijing is preparing to invade Taiwan. Because of China, Taiwan is barred from attending WHO.

criddell 7y ago

I think this is something most Americans probably support.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

__d 7y ago

I think there are two different philosophies at work here. In one, international trading has built a web of mutual dependencies between countries. When your economic well-being depends on another country, you're less likely to go to war with them. The more inter-dependencies exist, the less likely armed conflict becomes. Countries outside the trading bloc are then suspect: they have nothing to lose in attacking. Attempts to bring outsiders into the bloc via trade agreements, development, loans, etc, are all really part of a defensive security strategy. This is nothing new: rulers have been marrying their children to those of their enemies for the same reasons since forever. The other point of view, which seems dominant within the current US administration, looks at the inter-dependencies of international trade purely as a liability. When the US relies on China to provide it with lots of manufactured goods, that is seen mostly (or solely) as a risk for the US, not as a stabilizing link in a web of mutual dependency. Which is not to say that China (for example) won't try to leverage those dependencies to improve its position, nor to say that the US shouldn't encourage more widespread dependencies so that there's resilience in the system to bad acting on the part of any single player. The point being that detaching from the web of mutual dependency makes you both weaker (in that you can only rely on yourself), and more threatening (since you no longer have anything to lose by attacking). The US, by virtue of its size, can probably most afford to be isolated, but it's not clear to me that it's a good long-term strategy.