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Genuine question, because I do not know the answer. Does it support: Lexical scoping Coroutines Generators Decorators Generic type containers A functional

Genuine question, because I do not know the answer. Does it support: Lexical scoping Coroutines Generators Decorators Generic type containers A functional API (e.g. something like Java 8 streams) An extensive selection of data structures (collections) included in the standard lib ?

wvenable 7y ago
> Lexical scoping Yes. > Coroutines No. > Generators Yes. > Decorators No. > Generic type containers In progress. But also PHP has dynamic/weak typing and static/strong typing so this isn't strictly necessary. > A functional API (e.g. something like Java 8 streams) Available as a 3rd party library. > An extensive selection of data structures (collections) included in the standard lib https://www.php.net/manual/en/book.spl.php https://www.php.net/manual/en/book.spl.php
- codesushi42 7y ago
  Thanks for the thoughtful response. But based on your answers, PHP does lag significantly behind other modern languages. FYI the SPL you linked is quite meager compared to languages like Python and Java. My opinion remains unchanged. Using PHP in 2019 only puts you at a disadvantage when compared to the alternatives.
  - wvenable 7y ago
    Honestly nobody uses the SPL. PHP's array type is more than powerful enough for the vast majority of data structure tasks and the standard library has functions for treating it as a stack, a list, etc. Coroutines are not necessary in PHP. In fact, the share nothing architecture of the LAMP stack is one of it's advantages if that suits your needs. The setup of a Java web stack alone is painful enough to make PHP a viable option in comparison.
    - codesushi42 7y ago
      Thanks. Again, I am asking out of ignorance: What is PHP's concurrency model? Is it still a forked process pool via something like PHP-FPM, or has it changed? Does the VM enforce a GIL? I'm assuming there is some kind of threading API? Can you run an event loop using epoll, and is the standard library well supported in that execution model? FYI, I was a PHP developer from 2003-2011. I did enjoy it back then. I never bought into the Rails hype at the time, opting instead for copycats like Yii and CI. But I was ignorant. Honestly, after switching to Python for web dev, I saw no reason to ever return. Since then, I've dropped web dev altogether, and I now work in C++, Java, and Python on a daily basis. It may be the nature of the work, but I still cringe at the thought of using PHP again after learning how capable other general purpose languages are. From a CS point of view, working in PHP just isn't very interesting... or pleasant.
      - wvenable 7y ago
        > What is PHP's concurrency model? Is it still a forked process pool via something like PHP-FPM, or has it changed? > Does the VM enforce a GIL? I'm assuming there is some kind of threading API? As far as I'm aware PHP is still mostly run PHP-FPM. It also does have a threading API: https://www.php.net/manual/en/class.thread.php https://www.php.net/manual/en/class.thread.php > But I was ignorant. Honestly, after switching to Python for web dev, I saw no reason to ever return. Since then, I've dropped web dev altogether, and I now work in C++, Java, and Python on a daily basis. I haven't done PHP seriously in a very long time. I currently work in C# and ASP.NET for web and I do C++, Python, and JavaScript. Personally, I'm doing work in Python right now and I don't enjoy it very much -- I'd much rather work in PHP for web development over Python. I prefer a good strongly typed language. > I still cringe at the thought of using PHP again after learning how capable other general purpose languages are. From a CS point of view, working in PHP just isn't very interesting... or pleasant. I don't know. PHP has Lambdas. It has generators. It was strong typing. From a CS perspective, there isn't much PHP does not have for the purposes of web development. It's limitations, in my opinion, mostly come from being a dynamic scripting language but those same issues befall Python and Nodejs as well. If I had to code in PHP again, my code wouldn't look much different from my code in any other language.

wvenable 7y ago

> Lexical scoping Yes. > Coroutines No. > Generators Yes. > Decorators No. > Generic type containers In progress. But also PHP has dynamic/weak typing and static/strong typing so this isn't strictly necessary. > A functional API (e.g. something like Java 8 streams) Available as a 3rd party library. > An extensive selection of data structures (collections) included in the standard lib https://www.php.net/manual/en/book.spl.php https://www.php.net/manual/en/book.spl.php

codesushi42 7y ago
Thanks for the thoughtful response. But based on your answers, PHP does lag significantly behind other modern languages. FYI the SPL you linked is quite meager compared to languages like Python and Java. My opinion remains unchanged. Using PHP in 2019 only puts you at a disadvantage when compared to the alternatives.
- wvenable 7y ago
  Honestly nobody uses the SPL. PHP's array type is more than powerful enough for the vast majority of data structure tasks and the standard library has functions for treating it as a stack, a list, etc. Coroutines are not necessary in PHP. In fact, the share nothing architecture of the LAMP stack is one of it's advantages if that suits your needs. The setup of a Java web stack alone is painful enough to make PHP a viable option in comparison.
  - codesushi42 7y ago
    Thanks. Again, I am asking out of ignorance: What is PHP's concurrency model? Is it still a forked process pool via something like PHP-FPM, or has it changed? Does the VM enforce a GIL? I'm assuming there is some kind of threading API? Can you run an event loop using epoll, and is the standard library well supported in that execution model? FYI, I was a PHP developer from 2003-2011. I did enjoy it back then. I never bought into the Rails hype at the time, opting instead for copycats like Yii and CI. But I was ignorant. Honestly, after switching to Python for web dev, I saw no reason to ever return. Since then, I've dropped web dev altogether, and I now work in C++, Java, and Python on a daily basis. It may be the nature of the work, but I still cringe at the thought of using PHP again after learning how capable other general purpose languages are. From a CS point of view, working in PHP just isn't very interesting... or pleasant.
    - wvenable 7y ago
      > What is PHP's concurrency model? Is it still a forked process pool via something like PHP-FPM, or has it changed? > Does the VM enforce a GIL? I'm assuming there is some kind of threading API? As far as I'm aware PHP is still mostly run PHP-FPM. It also does have a threading API: https://www.php.net/manual/en/class.thread.php https://www.php.net/manual/en/class.thread.php > But I was ignorant. Honestly, after switching to Python for web dev, I saw no reason to ever return. Since then, I've dropped web dev altogether, and I now work in C++, Java, and Python on a daily basis. I haven't done PHP seriously in a very long time. I currently work in C# and ASP.NET for web and I do C++, Python, and JavaScript. Personally, I'm doing work in Python right now and I don't enjoy it very much -- I'd much rather work in PHP for web development over Python. I prefer a good strongly typed language. > I still cringe at the thought of using PHP again after learning how capable other general purpose languages are. From a CS point of view, working in PHP just isn't very interesting... or pleasant. I don't know. PHP has Lambdas. It has generators. It was strong typing. From a CS perspective, there isn't much PHP does not have for the purposes of web development. It's limitations, in my opinion, mostly come from being a dynamic scripting language but those same issues befall Python and Nodejs as well. If I had to code in PHP again, my code wouldn't look much different from my code in any other language.