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since the company has no profits and no prospect of making a profit (save from the wild claim that it is waiting for autonomous cars) what is the difference on

by ggg2 7y ago

since the company has no profits and no prospect of making a profit (save from the wild claim that it is waiting for autonomous cars) what is the difference on sizing it on $1 or $50? both are overpriced in a pure analysis (i.e. ignoring market excitement)

deminature 7y ago
>since the company has no profits and no prospect of making a profit (save from the wild claim that it is waiting for autonomous cars) Really tired of reading this - its thoroughly debunked in the S1, which nobody seems to have read.
- Marazan 7y ago
  It currently has no profits. This is unarguable. So you must be certain it has future profits. Where do these future profits come from?
- liquidise 7y ago
  Can you specify which claim(s) you are tired of? As someone who has tracked the entire Uber S1 from a safe distance with popcorn instead of investment money, i'm legitimately curious.
- mywittyname 7y ago
  The S1 does say: > We have incurred significant losses since inception, including in the United States and other major markets. We expect our operating expenses to increase significantly in the foreseeable future, and we may not achieve profitability. > We have incurred significant losses since inception. We incurred operating losses of $4.0 billion and $3.0 billion in the years ended December 31, 2017 and 2018, and as of December 31, 2018, we had an accumulated deficit of $7.9 billion. We will need to generate and sustain increased revenue levels and decrease proportionate expenses in future periods to achieve profitability in many of our largest markets, including in the United States, and even if we do, we may not be able to maintain or increase profitability. We anticipate that we will continue to incur losses in the near term as a result of expected substantial increases in our operating expenses, as we continue to invest in order to: [...] So I can under why people keep saying that, even if it is a gross exaggeration. But Uber is clearly profitable, in the sense that they charge more for rides than said rides cost, but they do have a negative EBITA and are going into debt to fund necessary expansion. It's silly for people to claim they have no prospect of making money, but Uber is certainly a risky investment at this point.
  - Marazan 7y ago
    But Uber is clearly profitable, in the sense that they charge more for rides than said rides cost Cool, so if Uber had no employees, infrastructure or marketing costs it would make money?
at-fates-hands 7y ago
The underwriter sets the offering price based on the amount of capital the company wants to raise and the level of demand from investors. The opening price is set by supply and demand. Few investors can buy an IPO at the offering price, because most shares go to the underwriter’s best institutional clients, and some are reserved for the company’s “friends and family.” So most investors' only option is to buy in the open market when the shares start trading. The day an IPO is released, buy and sell orders pile up until they are balanced against each other, determining the opening price. If the demand for shares exceeds the supply, the shares open higher than the offering price; otherwise they open lower.
- jahlove 7y ago
  > The opening price is set by supply and demand. Is it though, if the underwriter is using a naked short to put an artificial floor on the price of the stock?
airstrike 7y ago
Expectation of future profits, but you say > no prospect of making a profit which is an unsubstantiated claim.

by ggg2 7y ago

deminature 7y ago

>since the company has no profits and no prospect of making a profit (save from the wild claim that it is waiting for autonomous cars) Really tired of reading this - its thoroughly debunked in the S1, which nobody seems to have read.

Marazan 7y ago
It currently has no profits. This is unarguable. So you must be certain it has future profits. Where do these future profits come from?
liquidise 7y ago
Can you specify which claim(s) you are tired of? As someone who has tracked the entire Uber S1 from a safe distance with popcorn instead of investment money, i'm legitimately curious.
mywittyname 7y ago
The S1 does say: > We have incurred significant losses since inception, including in the United States and other major markets. We expect our operating expenses to increase significantly in the foreseeable future, and we may not achieve profitability. > We have incurred significant losses since inception. We incurred operating losses of $4.0 billion and $3.0 billion in the years ended December 31, 2017 and 2018, and as of December 31, 2018, we had an accumulated deficit of $7.9 billion. We will need to generate and sustain increased revenue levels and decrease proportionate expenses in future periods to achieve profitability in many of our largest markets, including in the United States, and even if we do, we may not be able to maintain or increase profitability. We anticipate that we will continue to incur losses in the near term as a result of expected substantial increases in our operating expenses, as we continue to invest in order to: [...] So I can under why people keep saying that, even if it is a gross exaggeration. But Uber is clearly profitable, in the sense that they charge more for rides than said rides cost, but they do have a negative EBITA and are going into debt to fund necessary expansion. It's silly for people to claim they have no prospect of making money, but Uber is certainly a risky investment at this point.
- Marazan 7y ago
  But Uber is clearly profitable, in the sense that they charge more for rides than said rides cost Cool, so if Uber had no employees, infrastructure or marketing costs it would make money?

at-fates-hands 7y ago

The underwriter sets the offering price based on the amount of capital the company wants to raise and the level of demand from investors. The opening price is set by supply and demand. Few investors can buy an IPO at the offering price, because most shares go to the underwriter’s best institutional clients, and some are reserved for the company’s “friends and family.” So most investors' only option is to buy in the open market when the shares start trading. The day an IPO is released, buy and sell orders pile up until they are balanced against each other, determining the opening price. If the demand for shares exceeds the supply, the shares open higher than the offering price; otherwise they open lower.

jahlove 7y ago
> The opening price is set by supply and demand. Is it though, if the underwriter is using a naked short to put an artificial floor on the price of the stock?

airstrike 7y ago

Expectation of future profits, but you say > no prospect of making a profit which is an unsubstantiated claim.