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> is there any political push in the U.S. to, if not hold the NSO Group's executives and key engineers responsible, at least make their lives difficult? (For ex

> is there any political push in the U.S. to, if not hold the NSO Group's executives and key engineers responsible, at least make their lives difficult? (For example, through the Global Magnitsky Act) NSO is Israeli. The U.S. has proven that it does not care about illegal acts of its friends, not in Israel, nor Egypt, KSA etc. Granted, NSO Group is a private entity, but it definitely has the Israeli government looking the other way and so will do the U.S. one as a result. The Magnitsky act was targeted at Russia, there's political will for that. Using it to target Israeli actors? I don't think so. P.S. Before downvoting because I criticized something Israeli, note that it is such mentality that helps players like NSO to operate with impunity in the first place. Nonetheless, I want to make clear that there are U.S. & European companies, (for example Italian-based, "Hacking Team", that do this and it's just as bankrupt). It is the business model that is bankrupt.

themackhesback 7y ago
The U.S. has imposed Magnitsky sanctions on Saudi officials linked to the murder of Jamal Kashoggi, but those were extraordinary circumstances - he was very well connected in D.C. circles.
- AsyncAwait 7y ago
  Yeah and it's worth noting that MBS had no sanctions imposed on him at all, despite everybody agreeing that it was done at his request.
dalbasal 7y ago
Allies/rivals has a lot to do with it, but the framework is military industry... like arms exports, the largest market sector in the world. Israeli and US intelligence are very close, and I suspect there are strategic benefits to being the supplier of these technologies that incentivize it. Also, they both have interest in questionable internal security agencies (eg saudi's, Iraq's & Egypt's) succeeding, to avoid isis-like groups getting strong. I'm not excusing it (I'm Israeli btw), but the whole approach to military industry is built on treating suppliers as not responsible for how their products/weapons are used. That said, intelligence tech feels more like outright mercenary services than weapons sales. This might get marginally better as the scandals mount. Best case, non-radical scenario: any SigInt technology is treated as "strategic," with close oversight.. like anti-aircraft somesuch.
gautamdivgi 7y ago
Aren't there plenty of such US & European companies as well? Palantir's security/government work especially for foreign entities probably falls square within this realm.
- mandevil 7y ago
  Unless they have a separate program that no one has ever reported on, Palantir is a data analysis platform, not a data collection one like NSO Group is alleged to do. See, e.g. https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2018-palantir-peter-thiel/ https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2018-palantir-peter-thiel... "The company’s engineers and products don’t do any spying themselves; they’re more like a spy’s brain, collecting and analyzing information that’s fed in from the hands, eyes, nose, and ears."
  - acct1771 7y ago
    Bloomberg describes them as a data mining company. It's named after omniscient crystal balls. The CIA’s investment arm, In-Q-Tel, was a seed investor. Do you truly believe they don't collect data?
    - mandevil 7y ago
      I am 100% sure that somewhere in the US government, a bunch of contractors are working on data collection tools. The Shadowbrokers and Snowden make that clear. I doubt that Palantir is doing it- there has never been any allegations of that, and almost all public articles on them make clear that they specialize in the analysis side. They are sexy enough- you know their name and would definitely click on a link with them in the headline- that I bet it would come out. My guesses would start with Booz Allen Hamilton (who has had two notable people on NSA contracts: Snowden and Harold Martin) for where the data collection tools come from. Look at https://www.thenation.com/article/five-corporations-now-dominate-our-privatized-intelligence-industry/ https://www.thenation.com/article/five-corporations-now-domi... Five companies dominate USG intelligence contracting, and Palantir isn't on the list: Leidos, CACI, SAIC, Booz Allen, and CSRA. One or more of those companies do provide data collection tools to the government, I'm certain. They are boring companies that no one really cares about, and you would never click on a link about Leidos, so that's where it's happening.

themackhesback 7y ago

The U.S. has imposed Magnitsky sanctions on Saudi officials linked to the murder of Jamal Kashoggi, but those were extraordinary circumstances - he was very well connected in D.C. circles.

AsyncAwait 7y ago
Yeah and it's worth noting that MBS had no sanctions imposed on him at all, despite everybody agreeing that it was done at his request.

dalbasal 7y ago

Allies/rivals has a lot to do with it, but the framework is military industry... like arms exports, the largest market sector in the world. Israeli and US intelligence are very close, and I suspect there are strategic benefits to being the supplier of these technologies that incentivize it. Also, they both have interest in questionable internal security agencies (eg saudi's, Iraq's & Egypt's) succeeding, to avoid isis-like groups getting strong. I'm not excusing it (I'm Israeli btw), but the whole approach to military industry is built on treating suppliers as not responsible for how their products/weapons are used. That said, intelligence tech feels more like outright mercenary services than weapons sales. This might get marginally better as the scandals mount. Best case, non-radical scenario: any SigInt technology is treated as "strategic," with close oversight.. like anti-aircraft somesuch.

gautamdivgi 7y ago

Aren't there plenty of such US & European companies as well? Palantir's security/government work especially for foreign entities probably falls square within this realm.

mandevil 7y ago
Unless they have a separate program that no one has ever reported on, Palantir is a data analysis platform, not a data collection one like NSO Group is alleged to do. See, e.g. https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2018-palantir-peter-thiel/ https://www.bloomberg.com/features/2018-palantir-peter-thiel... "The company’s engineers and products don’t do any spying themselves; they’re more like a spy’s brain, collecting and analyzing information that’s fed in from the hands, eyes, nose, and ears."
- acct1771 7y ago
  Bloomberg describes them as a data mining company. It's named after omniscient crystal balls. The CIA’s investment arm, In-Q-Tel, was a seed investor. Do you truly believe they don't collect data?
  - mandevil 7y ago
    I am 100% sure that somewhere in the US government, a bunch of contractors are working on data collection tools. The Shadowbrokers and Snowden make that clear. I doubt that Palantir is doing it- there has never been any allegations of that, and almost all public articles on them make clear that they specialize in the analysis side. They are sexy enough- you know their name and would definitely click on a link with them in the headline- that I bet it would come out. My guesses would start with Booz Allen Hamilton (who has had two notable people on NSA contracts: Snowden and Harold Martin) for where the data collection tools come from. Look at https://www.thenation.com/article/five-corporations-now-dominate-our-privatized-intelligence-industry/ https://www.thenation.com/article/five-corporations-now-domi... Five companies dominate USG intelligence contracting, and Palantir isn't on the list: Leidos, CACI, SAIC, Booz Allen, and CSRA. One or more of those companies do provide data collection tools to the government, I'm certain. They are boring companies that no one really cares about, and you would never click on a link about Leidos, so that's where it's happening.