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This is naive at best and certainly unrealistic. There is such a thing as "carrying capacity" of the planet if only in terms of quality of life. I'm sure peop

This is naive at best and certainly unrealistic. There is such a thing as "carrying capacity" of the planet if only in terms of quality of life. I'm sure people prefer spacious homes, space, parks, nature, wilderness, rather than being cramped in a crowd 24/7. Less people is a real solution to the main problems of today. This does not mean less opportunity. Quite the opposite this means more opportunities and better quality of life.

hudon 7y ago
> Less people is a real solution to the main problems of today. Here's a thought experiment: Why don't you and I end our lives right now, then? Every breath we take contributes to the carbon footprint. (please don't do it, human life is the greatest cause of human progress)
- toomuchtodo 7y ago
  I believe this is a false argument. There is a difference between avoiding additional life instantiation, and nurturing existence life. All of us are worth something because of our knowledge, skills, experience, that has led us to today. Whatever that value is, it is more than that of life that hasn't been conceived yet. The less people on the planet, the more resources for those people who do exist.
  - hudon 7y ago
    > Whatever that value is, it is more than that of life that hasn't been conceived yet. Please provide some form of evidence or proof for this. I can just as well argue that because my day-to-day work is related to fixing climate issues, your life should be ended so your resources go to me so I can do my job better and grow my team. That way, you'll also stop stealing my oxygen and emitting carbon dioxide (which is putting my children in peril, and they will also be working to fight climate change so their life is worth more than yours).
    - toomuchtodo 7y ago
      > Please provide some form of evidence or proof for this. Killing me is murder, abortion is a medical procedure, contraceptives and other birth control methods are easily available and legal, depending on your jurisdiction. I suppose we could argue the semantics of conception and when life starts, but I'd rather not in this thread (as it will lead nowhere productive). That would seem to indicate how value has been determined at a social level.
      - hudon 7y ago
        Nono it won't be murder, it will be a state-sanctioned euthanasia for the betterment of society. We should get together and allow this to happen so we can re-allocate resources away from humans that are just emitting carbon and not materially contributing to technologies that reverse climate change. Let me do my job, please, I'm trying to fix our climate.
        toomuchtodo 7y ago
        A modest proposal.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]

hudon 7y ago

> Less people is a real solution to the main problems of today. Here's a thought experiment: Why don't you and I end our lives right now, then? Every breath we take contributes to the carbon footprint. (please don't do it, human life is the greatest cause of human progress)

toomuchtodo 7y ago
I believe this is a false argument. There is a difference between avoiding additional life instantiation, and nurturing existence life. All of us are worth something because of our knowledge, skills, experience, that has led us to today. Whatever that value is, it is more than that of life that hasn't been conceived yet. The less people on the planet, the more resources for those people who do exist.
- hudon 7y ago
  > Whatever that value is, it is more than that of life that hasn't been conceived yet. Please provide some form of evidence or proof for this. I can just as well argue that because my day-to-day work is related to fixing climate issues, your life should be ended so your resources go to me so I can do my job better and grow my team. That way, you'll also stop stealing my oxygen and emitting carbon dioxide (which is putting my children in peril, and they will also be working to fight climate change so their life is worth more than yours).
  - toomuchtodo 7y ago
    > Please provide some form of evidence or proof for this. Killing me is murder, abortion is a medical procedure, contraceptives and other birth control methods are easily available and legal, depending on your jurisdiction. I suppose we could argue the semantics of conception and when life starts, but I'd rather not in this thread (as it will lead nowhere productive). That would seem to indicate how value has been determined at a social level.
    - hudon 7y ago
      Nono it won't be murder, it will be a state-sanctioned euthanasia for the betterment of society. We should get together and allow this to happen so we can re-allocate resources away from humans that are just emitting carbon and not materially contributing to technologies that reverse climate change. Let me do my job, please, I'm trying to fix our climate.
      - toomuchtodo 7y ago
        A modest proposal.
        deleted 7y ago
        [deleted]