3 ms·

They just added a brand new feature in 3.8 that let's you just append = at the end for quick debugging: >>> f'{5+5=}' '5+5=10' >>> foo = 5 >>> f'{foo=}' 'f

They just added a brand new feature in 3.8 that let's you just append = at the end for quick debugging: >>> f'{5+5=}' '5+5=10' >>> foo = 5 >>> f'{foo=}' 'foo=5' https://docs.python.org/dev/whatsnew/3.8.html#f-strings-now-support-for-quick-and-easy-debugging https://docs.python.org/dev/whatsnew/3.8.html#f-strings-now-...

gizmo385 7y ago
This just feels like another example of Python slowly creeping more esoteric syntax into the language, making it harder for beginners to approach the language.
- jplayer01 7y ago
  Beginners don't have to know or touch any of this though. They can keep using normal strings until at some point they learn about f strings and see a need for them. You don't need to stop adding features to a language just because a beginner won't be able to learn everything. They don't need to.
  - simonh 7y ago
    I think the point is, a beginner coming across some code using such esoteric features is going to be a bit lost as to what's going on. With most of Python you can see what it's doing even if you didn't know the syntax before. That's true of basic f-strings, but not so much with some of this stuff.
    - makapuf 7y ago
      Yeah languages are meant to be read even by beginners. I think a language like python shines by being small (in design) yet powerful (by capability). Having myriads of "nice for one use case" feature in the language is not the way forward. I long for the time where % format and .format are removed from the language spec. Even if they still work on the implementation for compatibility. Please remove things.
      - batisteo 7y ago
        > Please remove things. We're not done with Python 2 yet. This would be a Python 4 for sure. That's not according the philosophy of backward compatibility of Python (even if I agree with you).
        makapuf 7y ago
        Yes backward compatibility is not an option (lets avoid redoing python3 trauma ) and simply delegating coexistence of old and new features to implementation is a bit lazy. However documenting one way as the current one and other features as old ways, for backward compatibility can simplify things.
jacobush 7y ago
I don't get it. Why not just write: >>> f'{foo}=' 'foo=5'
- baq 7y ago
  there's a pattern in debugging that basically looks like print('foo=',foo) like all languages should, if a pattern is wide-spread, useful and basically boilerplate, python decided to create a language shortcut for it. print('f{foo=}')
  - stOneskull 7y ago
    f before the quote though
    - baq 7y ago
      doh! classic 'your bick is dig', can't even edit now :(
istjohn 7y ago
As someone who probably relies on print statements too much for debugging, I love this.

gizmo385 7y ago

This just feels like another example of Python slowly creeping more esoteric syntax into the language, making it harder for beginners to approach the language.

jplayer01 7y ago
Beginners don't have to know or touch any of this though. They can keep using normal strings until at some point they learn about f strings and see a need for them. You don't need to stop adding features to a language just because a beginner won't be able to learn everything. They don't need to.
- simonh 7y ago
  I think the point is, a beginner coming across some code using such esoteric features is going to be a bit lost as to what's going on. With most of Python you can see what it's doing even if you didn't know the syntax before. That's true of basic f-strings, but not so much with some of this stuff.
  - makapuf 7y ago
    Yeah languages are meant to be read even by beginners. I think a language like python shines by being small (in design) yet powerful (by capability). Having myriads of "nice for one use case" feature in the language is not the way forward. I long for the time where % format and .format are removed from the language spec. Even if they still work on the implementation for compatibility. Please remove things.
    - batisteo 7y ago
      > Please remove things. We're not done with Python 2 yet. This would be a Python 4 for sure. That's not according the philosophy of backward compatibility of Python (even if I agree with you).
      - makapuf 7y ago
        Yes backward compatibility is not an option (lets avoid redoing python3 trauma ) and simply delegating coexistence of old and new features to implementation is a bit lazy. However documenting one way as the current one and other features as old ways, for backward compatibility can simplify things.

jacobush 7y ago

I don't get it. Why not just write: >>> f'{foo}=' 'foo=5'

baq 7y ago
there's a pattern in debugging that basically looks like print('foo=',foo) like all languages should, if a pattern is wide-spread, useful and basically boilerplate, python decided to create a language shortcut for it. print('f{foo=}')
- stOneskull 7y ago
  f before the quote though
  - baq 7y ago
    doh! classic 'your bick is dig', can't even edit now :(

istjohn 7y ago

As someone who probably relies on print statements too much for debugging, I love this.