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ZeroNet: Decentralized websites using Bitcoin cryptography, BitTorrent network

69 points by bjourne 8y ago

efoto 8y ago
Bitcoin crypo (sic!) in the title is funny. Update: cool, the title is fixed, this comment downvoted.
schoen 8y ago
I think it's great that people are continuing to experiment with cypherpunkish technology platforms and with ways of combining different technologies, but "uncensorable" is a pretty strong claim. "No single point of failure", another claim displayed on the web site, doesn't genuinely imply "uncensorable".
- baroffoos 8y ago
  Last time I checked which was a few years ago. Zeronet uses a torrent tracker to find peers. Meaning that if the devs server goes offline you won't be able to load any zeronet sites.
  - vorticalbox 8y ago
    Not quite right, it does use torrent trackers however on visiting a website you download and start seeding that website to other zeronet users. So long as there is a tracker up and people seeding it people can access you're website. There is a add to black list button for websites you find and don't want to seed. There are restrictions in place for websites such as only having 10mb of space but you can grant it more should you want to from the UI. Other than keeping a website a live by seeding you also get to access the website offline, and it will resync next time there is an internet connection
    - schoen 8y ago
      > There is a add to black list button for websites you find and don't want to seed. That doesn't sound very completely uncensorable if someone can identify a potentially tiny number of seeders and punish them (via DDoS, legal action, social shaming, or violence) for continuing to seed a particular site. If that works, there might then be no seeders left at all.
freedomben 8y ago
Whoa this seems like a pretty well established and (dare I say) popular project! 13,742 stars as of this writing: https://github.com/HelloZeroNet/ZeroNet https://github.com/HelloZeroNet/ZeroNet
- skrowl 8y ago
  It's been going since 2015. I doubt it'll ever really take off the way that Tor did.
solidasparagus 8y ago
This needs to be preserved in history as a quintessential crypto project splash page. A lot of claims that are clearly sensationalized (to the point of bullshit), buzzwords everywhere, a lot of focus on what interests crypto people, very little focus on the things that real users care about (how do people find my website?) and zero acknowledgement that there are tradeoffs to consider. It honestly feels like a Pied Piper joke. A UI that is obviously built by engineers for engineers. Phrases like "It's nowhere because it's everywhere!". Not to be negative about the technology itself which seems neat, if a bit oversold.
- etaioinshrdlu 8y ago
  The .io domain is icing on the cake :)
- hokus 8y ago
  On irc complexity is a feature.
runn1ng 8y ago
> Page response time is not limited by your connection speed. Pardon my skepticism, but this sounds like bullshit. Based on the docs, the pages are downloaded from bittorrent-like network. So not only your connection speed limits you, but also upload speed of the other peers. ...well, since the upload speed of other peers will probably be slower than your download speed (based on my bittorrent experience), the statement is technically true. :)
- utunga 8y ago
  What they mean is that it's loading from local storage much of the time - not from the server.
olliej 8y ago
Ok, I'm super confused here. Why are your bitcoin credentials needed? There's a limit to the data that can be attached to a btc transaction, so your pages aren't being stored in ye olde block chain? Other comments imply a bittorrent network is involved so I am unclear how it ensures persistence?
- utunga 8y ago
  They're not? What zeronet are you on?
londons_explore 8y ago
They need a browser extension or app version of this... Downloading and installing software is more than regular Joe is happy to do in 2019
utunga 8y ago
Thanks to this post I went from clicking around the site to watching Tamas Kocsis' Ted Talk streaming within zeronet, within about 2 minutes. What I find most impressive about this, is that the start up experience is so solid. It just works and its fast as hell. I honestly don't even know what you lot are complaining about, did you try it?
- CodiePetersen 8y ago
  I'll give it a try, looks interesting.
Stevvo 8y ago
Is the zeronet.io site itself hosted with this tech? If not, why?
theknarf 8y ago
How does this compare to Dat (https://datproject.org/ https://datproject.org/)?

69 points by bjourne 8y ago

Bitcoin crypo (sic!) in the title is funny. Update: cool, the title is fixed, this comment downvoted.

I think it's great that people are continuing to experiment with cypherpunkish technology platforms and with ways of combining different technologies, but "uncensorable" is a pretty strong claim. "No single point of failure", another claim displayed on the web site, doesn't genuinely imply "uncensorable".

baroffoos 8y ago
Last time I checked which was a few years ago. Zeronet uses a torrent tracker to find peers. Meaning that if the devs server goes offline you won't be able to load any zeronet sites.
- vorticalbox 8y ago
  Not quite right, it does use torrent trackers however on visiting a website you download and start seeding that website to other zeronet users. So long as there is a tracker up and people seeding it people can access you're website. There is a add to black list button for websites you find and don't want to seed. There are restrictions in place for websites such as only having 10mb of space but you can grant it more should you want to from the UI. Other than keeping a website a live by seeding you also get to access the website offline, and it will resync next time there is an internet connection
  - schoen 8y ago
    > There is a add to black list button for websites you find and don't want to seed. That doesn't sound very completely uncensorable if someone can identify a potentially tiny number of seeders and punish them (via DDoS, legal action, social shaming, or violence) for continuing to seed a particular site. If that works, there might then be no seeders left at all.

freedomben 8y ago

Whoa this seems like a pretty well established and (dare I say) popular project! 13,742 stars as of this writing: https://github.com/HelloZeroNet/ZeroNet https://github.com/HelloZeroNet/ZeroNet

skrowl 8y ago
It's been going since 2015. I doubt it'll ever really take off the way that Tor did.

solidasparagus 8y ago

This needs to be preserved in history as a quintessential crypto project splash page. A lot of claims that are clearly sensationalized (to the point of bullshit), buzzwords everywhere, a lot of focus on what interests crypto people, very little focus on the things that real users care about (how do people find my website?) and zero acknowledgement that there are tradeoffs to consider. It honestly feels like a Pied Piper joke. A UI that is obviously built by engineers for engineers. Phrases like "It's nowhere because it's everywhere!". Not to be negative about the technology itself which seems neat, if a bit oversold.

etaioinshrdlu 8y ago
The .io domain is icing on the cake :)
hokus 8y ago
On irc complexity is a feature.

runn1ng 8y ago

> Page response time is not limited by your connection speed. Pardon my skepticism, but this sounds like bullshit. Based on the docs, the pages are downloaded from bittorrent-like network. So not only your connection speed limits you, but also upload speed of the other peers. ...well, since the upload speed of other peers will probably be slower than your download speed (based on my bittorrent experience), the statement is technically true. :)

utunga 8y ago
What they mean is that it's loading from local storage much of the time - not from the server.

olliej 8y ago

Ok, I'm super confused here. Why are your bitcoin credentials needed? There's a limit to the data that can be attached to a btc transaction, so your pages aren't being stored in ye olde block chain? Other comments imply a bittorrent network is involved so I am unclear how it ensures persistence?

utunga 8y ago
They're not? What zeronet are you on?

londons_explore 8y ago

They need a browser extension or app version of this... Downloading and installing software is more than regular Joe is happy to do in 2019

utunga 8y ago

Thanks to this post I went from clicking around the site to watching Tamas Kocsis' Ted Talk streaming within zeronet, within about 2 minutes. What I find most impressive about this, is that the start up experience is so solid. It just works and its fast as hell. I honestly don't even know what you lot are complaining about, did you try it?

CodiePetersen 8y ago
I'll give it a try, looks interesting.

Stevvo 8y ago

Is the zeronet.io site itself hosted with this tech? If not, why?

theknarf 8y ago

How does this compare to Dat (https://datproject.org/ https://datproject.org/)?