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> I associate crypto with shonk, which puts keybase.io in the "this is a crypto thing? Hmmm.... shonky." category. This is unnecessary bias, though. If you loo

> I associate crypto with shonk, which puts keybase.io in the "this is a crypto thing? Hmmm.... shonky." category. This is unnecessary bias, though. If you look past the drama, cryptocurrency is a powerful and useful invention.

dogecoinbase 7y ago
If something is primarily used for scams, it's a perfectly reasonable heuristic to associate it with scams. I understand why Keybase is doing this (the attraction of cryptocurrency is profound, and not just because there's so much money being thrown around), but it not do anything for their credibility.
gumby 7y ago
> cryptocurrency is a powerful and useful invention. Can you explain? Intellectually interesting? No question. But powerful or useful (I consider them synonyms)? I'd like to see some actual examples. This is genuine curiosity, not snark. I'm on the board of a blockchain startup who has a legitimate application for a blockchain -- an aspirin. But this application could have been done 20 years ago if there hadn't been patent issues for hash chains. And while the engineers are enthusiastic to do a coin nobody can explain why someone else would want to buy one, except in the hope that someone someday would pay more for it. I've seen a few vaguely interesting applications cor crypto currencies, but they are all been at best 'vitamins'. I've yet to see an 'aspirin'.
- btown 7y ago
  Are there any resources describing the patent issues for hash chains? Have patents expired, or does cryptocurrency somehow work around them?
- mirimir 7y ago
  Basically, it's Internet money. So like the Internet, it's very difficult for governments to fsck with. They can try, of course, but there will always be levels of overlay networks that they can't touch. This is one aspect of the cypherpunk vision. Being ~anonymous online, cryptocurrencies are my only option for buying and selling stuff online. Leasing VPN services, servers, VPS, etc. Getting paid for writing and other consulting work. The speculation aspect is just meme-driven bullshit. What we need is cryptocurrencies with stable values, for online commerce. I'm not sure what you mean by "aspirin" vs "vitamins". But for me, getting out from under the thumb of government is extremely interesting.
  - chrischen 7y ago
    I’d rather call it internet “cash” rather than just internet money. We can use money online (credit card, paypal), but there’s so much consumer protection stuff that goes along with it that makes it hard to use like paper cash—irreversible, untraceable.m, unsanctioned usage. Perfect for things governments hate: illegal stuff like extortion and drugs.
    - mirimir 7y ago
      > Perfect for things governments hate: illegal stuff like extortion and drugs. That's true for anything that provides privacy and freedom.
- astrolince 7y ago
  Of course you don't understand, because you don't need them, you can't understand freedom of expression if you never had anything to say, you can't understand privacy if you never had anything to hide, if you were living in a country like mine, Argentina, you would understand immediately the incredibly useful thing that Bitcoin is. I have a Swiss bank in my pocket, in a country that steals all your savings every ten years and the central bank destroys you with inflation. I have an international payment system, I can send and receive money in minutes to whomever I want, without asking permission from anyone, without the government or the bank stealing it from me. From a place where it is sinful to take your money out of the country. It's the difference between existing or not in the world, and you have no idea how incredible it is to be able to pass an Argentine crisis without your family suffering hunger, no centralized system could give me something similar at such a low cost.
  - qqn 7y ago
    Thanks for sharing this. From my first payments in crypto I immediately felt something huge had shifted in the world, exactly what you're talking about here. I hope you and yours are safe and secure.
  - phyzome 7y ago
    It sounds like Stellar would be a bad fit for your use-case, then, even while Bitcoin is useful.
    - rickycook 7y ago
      why is that? you can still interact with the stellar network with just xlm->xlm; you don’t have to pass it through and anchor to pay in some fiat-backed token
      - phyzome 7y ago
        Ah, OK. I've had a pretty hard time understanding Stellar's model. It seems pretty complicated.
  - sphinxpy 7y ago
- qqn 7y ago
  > I'd like to see some actual examples. I used Bitcoin to cover a flight a few years back when the only other options were PayPal or using a European bank deposit (0). More recently I also paid for graduate studies in Bitcoin (1). Granted, it was for an MSc in cryptocurrency but the process was still just so... easy. I did it while in bed here in Canada to a university in Cyprus. It took about five minutes and the school converted the funds to euros right away. When I compare this to waiting 1-2 weeks to move funds from Canada to Europe for previous studies (as well as the ~€100 in fees), I can definitely see a bullish case for crypto, especially for bigger international payments. 0: https://www.airbaltic.com/en/payment-options https://www.airbaltic.com/en/payment-options 1: https://digitalcurrency.unic.ac.cy/admissions/financial-information https://digitalcurrency.unic.ac.cy/admissions/financial-info...
- feanaro 7y ago
  Sibling comments to this one have already written down most of what I would say myself. In short, I think having a way to transfer money anonymously and without control from the government an especially important capability.
mirimir 7y ago
Yes! Me, I associate the Internet with "shonk". And people, fundamentally, although AI could do it too. Also, I hate the term "crypto". Crypto is a general term. As you say, it's "cryptocurrency". Just because most people are ignorant and meme-driven, there's no excuse to post like that here. But whatever. Cryptocurrencies, as anyone who's been following them for more than a decade or two knows, are about money that's not controlled by governments, which can be used on the Internet, and which can be exchanged anonymously.

dogecoinbase 7y ago

If something is primarily used for scams, it's a perfectly reasonable heuristic to associate it with scams. I understand why Keybase is doing this (the attraction of cryptocurrency is profound, and not just because there's so much money being thrown around), but it not do anything for their credibility.

gumby 7y ago

> cryptocurrency is a powerful and useful invention. Can you explain? Intellectually interesting? No question. But powerful or useful (I consider them synonyms)? I'd like to see some actual examples. This is genuine curiosity, not snark. I'm on the board of a blockchain startup who has a legitimate application for a blockchain -- an aspirin. But this application could have been done 20 years ago if there hadn't been patent issues for hash chains. And while the engineers are enthusiastic to do a coin nobody can explain why someone else would want to buy one, except in the hope that someone someday would pay more for it. I've seen a few vaguely interesting applications cor crypto currencies, but they are all been at best 'vitamins'. I've yet to see an 'aspirin'.

btown 7y ago
Are there any resources describing the patent issues for hash chains? Have patents expired, or does cryptocurrency somehow work around them?
mirimir 7y ago
Basically, it's Internet money. So like the Internet, it's very difficult for governments to fsck with. They can try, of course, but there will always be levels of overlay networks that they can't touch. This is one aspect of the cypherpunk vision. Being ~anonymous online, cryptocurrencies are my only option for buying and selling stuff online. Leasing VPN services, servers, VPS, etc. Getting paid for writing and other consulting work. The speculation aspect is just meme-driven bullshit. What we need is cryptocurrencies with stable values, for online commerce. I'm not sure what you mean by "aspirin" vs "vitamins". But for me, getting out from under the thumb of government is extremely interesting.
- chrischen 7y ago
  I’d rather call it internet “cash” rather than just internet money. We can use money online (credit card, paypal), but there’s so much consumer protection stuff that goes along with it that makes it hard to use like paper cash—irreversible, untraceable.m, unsanctioned usage. Perfect for things governments hate: illegal stuff like extortion and drugs.
  - mirimir 7y ago
    > Perfect for things governments hate: illegal stuff like extortion and drugs. That's true for anything that provides privacy and freedom.
astrolince 7y ago
Of course you don't understand, because you don't need them, you can't understand freedom of expression if you never had anything to say, you can't understand privacy if you never had anything to hide, if you were living in a country like mine, Argentina, you would understand immediately the incredibly useful thing that Bitcoin is. I have a Swiss bank in my pocket, in a country that steals all your savings every ten years and the central bank destroys you with inflation. I have an international payment system, I can send and receive money in minutes to whomever I want, without asking permission from anyone, without the government or the bank stealing it from me. From a place where it is sinful to take your money out of the country. It's the difference between existing or not in the world, and you have no idea how incredible it is to be able to pass an Argentine crisis without your family suffering hunger, no centralized system could give me something similar at such a low cost.
- qqn 7y ago
  Thanks for sharing this. From my first payments in crypto I immediately felt something huge had shifted in the world, exactly what you're talking about here. I hope you and yours are safe and secure.
- phyzome 7y ago
  It sounds like Stellar would be a bad fit for your use-case, then, even while Bitcoin is useful.
  - rickycook 7y ago
    why is that? you can still interact with the stellar network with just xlm->xlm; you don’t have to pass it through and anchor to pay in some fiat-backed token
    - phyzome 7y ago
      Ah, OK. I've had a pretty hard time understanding Stellar's model. It seems pretty complicated.
- sphinxpy 7y ago
qqn 7y ago
> I'd like to see some actual examples. I used Bitcoin to cover a flight a few years back when the only other options were PayPal or using a European bank deposit (0). More recently I also paid for graduate studies in Bitcoin (1). Granted, it was for an MSc in cryptocurrency but the process was still just so... easy. I did it while in bed here in Canada to a university in Cyprus. It took about five minutes and the school converted the funds to euros right away. When I compare this to waiting 1-2 weeks to move funds from Canada to Europe for previous studies (as well as the ~€100 in fees), I can definitely see a bullish case for crypto, especially for bigger international payments. 0: https://www.airbaltic.com/en/payment-options https://www.airbaltic.com/en/payment-options 1: https://digitalcurrency.unic.ac.cy/admissions/financial-information https://digitalcurrency.unic.ac.cy/admissions/financial-info...
feanaro 7y ago
Sibling comments to this one have already written down most of what I would say myself. In short, I think having a way to transfer money anonymously and without control from the government an especially important capability.

mirimir 7y ago

Yes! Me, I associate the Internet with "shonk". And people, fundamentally, although AI could do it too. Also, I hate the term "crypto". Crypto is a general term. As you say, it's "cryptocurrency". Just because most people are ignorant and meme-driven, there's no excuse to post like that here. But whatever. Cryptocurrencies, as anyone who's been following them for more than a decade or two knows, are about money that's not controlled by governments, which can be used on the Internet, and which can be exchanged anonymously.