4 ms·

Calling what's happening with modern society "loneliness epidemic" is like saying that people in a building set on fire are "suffering from heat exposure and ai

Calling what's happening with modern society "loneliness epidemic" is like saying that people in a building set on fire are "suffering from heat exposure and air pollution". A lot of social processes/constructions that make our society stable have been hijacked for profit or deliberately sabotaged for political gains. In both cases it's usually a product of extremely short-term thinking or highest forms of cynicism. Feeling disconnected is nothing more than an illusory side-effect of a whole host of other things.

lostconfused 7y ago
Need to call it something. Marx went with "estrangement". Alienation seems to be more commonly used today.
- ilikehurdles 7y ago
  Because I found it interesting, the wikipedia entry on Marx’s Theory of Alienation[1]. [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienatio...
- thescriptkiddie 7y ago
  Marx used the german word "Entfremdung", which can mean either "estrangement" or "alienation". In context, "Alienation" is the better translation.
dev_dull 7y ago
Another option other than malicious intent is that people are choosing to live this way even though they know it makes them unhappy. Where is the pressure to live differently? It used to come from family and community.
- losteric 7y ago
  I don't think it's a matter of pressure or choice, my grandparents simply lived in a more social environment. Broad family trees, churches, guilds/unions, even free-range childhoods - gone or fading across the nation. Aside from work communities, the rest was mostly innate. You can't "choose" to live in a bigger family... but that environment, those pillars of socialization, were what fed into the smaller social niches.
  - ericd 7y ago
    So, why don't we consciously reject this current course, and set up some social spaces in our communities? Perhaps a franchised non-profit, where the costs to join are just enough to cover the rent. Something like Rotary Club, but for the modern age. Or, maybe even better, design new towns that have public spaces, and are dense and walkable, with mixed commercial and residential zoning? Like basically any European town. Maybe even banish cars to garages on the outskirts, so that kids are safe to roam around. Just spitballing here, but it seems like there's some demand for something. WeWork seems to tap into some of that demand, but it's kind of a sad commercialized replacement for something more community driven.
NeedMoreTea 7y ago
Illusory side effect? Not at all illusory to my mind. We've never been more disconnected from people as we become ever more connected to the net. And that, is certainly not where I thought we'd end up or were even heading for most of the time I've worked in tech. Society has had 40 years being persuaded to believe in the cult of the individual and that society and community does not exist, and did not matter anyway. All that real terms GDP growth gives fewer and fewer community services and resources because of reasons - political dogma and artificial commercialisation mostly. Just about every resource, amenity, hobby and club my parents would recognise, and had locally, has been commercialised, consolidated and centralised. There's now fewer of them, and so they're further and further apart. Now it needs transport, and planning. Pubs, clubs, shops and small music venues are closing in record numbers, and besides who can afford (time or money) to go out any more? So Netflix and chill. Now add apps that try to make every single human interaction no longer actually need human interaction. No need to talk to someone in a bar, or when meeting friends to get a date, we got Tinder marketing images to swipe, and instant messaging to avoid making a call or visit. Maybe I'm just getting too old but I miss friends calling every week or so just to talk crap for 30 minutes. That got spaced ever wider - now comparatively rare - everyone's on fucking facebook or working on their instagram image. Calls are far more likely to feel intrusive. The other half can talk for England, but spends a fraction of the time on calls compared to 10 or 20 years ago. Any more disconnected and there'll be a moat around everyone's houses. Convince me it's all illusory. :)
- filoleg 7y ago
  To offer a counter-point: for me, all those social networks and internet in general facilitated some of the most meaningful friendships of my life. Mind you, I am talking about real-life friendships, not just "internet friends" kind of stuff. For example, two of my closest friends that I hang out with on the order of multiple times a week (dinners, concerts, sports games, etc.), I would have probably never met them if it wasn't for the common facebook groups. We don't even use FB that much (I log in about once every couple of days for 5-10 minutes at most), but I definitely attribute a chunk of the success of our friendship to FB. That's how we met, that's how we find new events and things to do (oh, your acquaintance X liked that new art exhibit opening on the museum FB page, you would probably be interested in checking that out with your friends!). Also, I don't know where you live, but in my area, things are only getting better in terms of places for meaningful socialization. New small niche bars, concert venues, and hobby places (hacker spaces/libraries/garage co-ops/hobby-specific clubs/etc.) open up at a regular rate and seem to attract a lot of people, many of which become regulars. I talk to bartenders quite often, and most of them seem to echo that sentiment. >we got [...] instant messaging to avoid making a call or visit. Maybe if someone uses messaging as a REPLACEMENT to hanging out in person, they never wanted to hang out in the first place? To me, that sounds like a good thing, because in this scenario, messaging cuts out forced in-person interactions of low quality.
climate-control 7y ago
heat exposure and air pollution So, the solution to the burning building is obviously better air filters, insulation and air conditioning. That way, the superstructure can continue to burn, while the people happily continue to reside safely within the confines of their own home. Translated according to the spirit of the metaphore, the fix for endemic loneliness shall be, what else? More apps!

lostconfused 7y ago

Need to call it something. Marx went with "estrangement". Alienation seems to be more commonly used today.

ilikehurdles 7y ago
Because I found it interesting, the wikipedia entry on Marx’s Theory of Alienation[1]. [1]: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienation https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marx%27s_theory_of_alienatio...
thescriptkiddie 7y ago
Marx used the german word "Entfremdung", which can mean either "estrangement" or "alienation". In context, "Alienation" is the better translation.

dev_dull 7y ago

Another option other than malicious intent is that people are choosing to live this way even though they know it makes them unhappy. Where is the pressure to live differently? It used to come from family and community.

losteric 7y ago
I don't think it's a matter of pressure or choice, my grandparents simply lived in a more social environment. Broad family trees, churches, guilds/unions, even free-range childhoods - gone or fading across the nation. Aside from work communities, the rest was mostly innate. You can't "choose" to live in a bigger family... but that environment, those pillars of socialization, were what fed into the smaller social niches.
- ericd 7y ago
  So, why don't we consciously reject this current course, and set up some social spaces in our communities? Perhaps a franchised non-profit, where the costs to join are just enough to cover the rent. Something like Rotary Club, but for the modern age. Or, maybe even better, design new towns that have public spaces, and are dense and walkable, with mixed commercial and residential zoning? Like basically any European town. Maybe even banish cars to garages on the outskirts, so that kids are safe to roam around. Just spitballing here, but it seems like there's some demand for something. WeWork seems to tap into some of that demand, but it's kind of a sad commercialized replacement for something more community driven.

NeedMoreTea 7y ago

Illusory side effect? Not at all illusory to my mind. We've never been more disconnected from people as we become ever more connected to the net. And that, is certainly not where I thought we'd end up or were even heading for most of the time I've worked in tech. Society has had 40 years being persuaded to believe in the cult of the individual and that society and community does not exist, and did not matter anyway. All that real terms GDP growth gives fewer and fewer community services and resources because of reasons - political dogma and artificial commercialisation mostly. Just about every resource, amenity, hobby and club my parents would recognise, and had locally, has been commercialised, consolidated and centralised. There's now fewer of them, and so they're further and further apart. Now it needs transport, and planning. Pubs, clubs, shops and small music venues are closing in record numbers, and besides who can afford (time or money) to go out any more? So Netflix and chill. Now add apps that try to make every single human interaction no longer actually need human interaction. No need to talk to someone in a bar, or when meeting friends to get a date, we got Tinder marketing images to swipe, and instant messaging to avoid making a call or visit. Maybe I'm just getting too old but I miss friends calling every week or so just to talk crap for 30 minutes. That got spaced ever wider - now comparatively rare - everyone's on fucking facebook or working on their instagram image. Calls are far more likely to feel intrusive. The other half can talk for England, but spends a fraction of the time on calls compared to 10 or 20 years ago. Any more disconnected and there'll be a moat around everyone's houses. Convince me it's all illusory. :)

filoleg 7y ago
To offer a counter-point: for me, all those social networks and internet in general facilitated some of the most meaningful friendships of my life. Mind you, I am talking about real-life friendships, not just "internet friends" kind of stuff. For example, two of my closest friends that I hang out with on the order of multiple times a week (dinners, concerts, sports games, etc.), I would have probably never met them if it wasn't for the common facebook groups. We don't even use FB that much (I log in about once every couple of days for 5-10 minutes at most), but I definitely attribute a chunk of the success of our friendship to FB. That's how we met, that's how we find new events and things to do (oh, your acquaintance X liked that new art exhibit opening on the museum FB page, you would probably be interested in checking that out with your friends!). Also, I don't know where you live, but in my area, things are only getting better in terms of places for meaningful socialization. New small niche bars, concert venues, and hobby places (hacker spaces/libraries/garage co-ops/hobby-specific clubs/etc.) open up at a regular rate and seem to attract a lot of people, many of which become regulars. I talk to bartenders quite often, and most of them seem to echo that sentiment. >we got [...] instant messaging to avoid making a call or visit. Maybe if someone uses messaging as a REPLACEMENT to hanging out in person, they never wanted to hang out in the first place? To me, that sounds like a good thing, because in this scenario, messaging cuts out forced in-person interactions of low quality.

climate-control 7y ago

heat exposure and air pollution So, the solution to the burning building is obviously better air filters, insulation and air conditioning. That way, the superstructure can continue to burn, while the people happily continue to reside safely within the confines of their own home. Translated according to the spirit of the metaphore, the fix for endemic loneliness shall be, what else? More apps!