6 ms·

the hardest thing is hiring reliable people...They are busting the CWA, period. My father in law was a linesman for AT&T, then the various Bell companies then

by 300bps 7y ago

the hardest thing is hiring reliable people...They are busting the CWA, period. My father in law was a linesman for AT&T, then the various Bell companies then Verizon for 30 years. He started when he was 21 and retired when he was 51 about 15 years ago. He regularly brags how the union would set hour allotments for each job and how he could complete work in 30 minutes that the union required scheduling for 5 hours. Most of the time he spent on the clock involved him hiding his work truck in the woods behind his house and sneaking into his house to work on home improvements while he was being paid. Every once in a while he would get caught doing something wrong and would be suspended. The union would then represent him and provide him groceries and other items during the suspension. Eventually Verizon paid him a lump sum of a quarter million dollars to go away which along with saving money from decades of generous overtime rules including double time and a half on holidays let him retire at the age of 51.

sandoze 7y ago
How’s that any different than tech workers inflating story points 2x and indulging a work from home day or kicking off early. I mean other than no job security, pension, gold watch and forced obsolescence at 51.
- Spooky23 7y ago
  Nobody knows wtf tech workers do. There was a candy bar commercial where a bunch of suits were eating candy snickering at the lazy construction crew hanging out below. Pretty much captures it.
petee 7y ago
There will always be people who abuse the support the union offered, like your dad, who gives unions a bad rep - most members work with pride and want to do the best job they can. Time allotted work is intended to ensure jobs are done safely; not everyone will take that long, but it ensures slower workers aren't going to cut corners just to keep schedule. Without a union, your dad would have been expected to take 30min every single time, and lose your job if you don't.
- ptaipale 7y ago
  IMHO, in this kind of a case it's not the employee who gives union a bad rep - it's the union. Why do they actually support this kind of behaviour? (FWIW, it sounds this is actually worse in the US, where the unions are supposedly "weak", than in my country which has social democrats in government and "strong unions".)
  - petee 7y ago
    No, its absolutely giving the union a bad rep by abusing its support. Keep in mind union officials rarely are physically present for the complaint at hand, so it is nearly always he-said, she-said. Likely the employee put up a fight, claimed a different take on the thing they got caught for, or it simply wasn't provable -- you absolutely can be fired for not doing your job, even if you are a union member! The protection the union gives is that you aren't fired on the spot without good reason or a fair shake. It forces the company to actually back up their reasons; not just Joe the manager didn't like you, or someone saw you take a 30 second break once. The fact that the guy was paid by AT&T to go away tells me he was good at playing the game, and good at not getting caught.
  - Spooky23 7y ago
    Unions usually have an obligation to defend everyone as part of their contract. Like anything, the douchiest people are usually best at working the system, and it takes strong and competent management to get rid of the bad eggs.
    - gpm 7y ago
      And how did that "obligation" get into their contract? You can bet the company didn't ask for it. This sounds like a problem of their (union officials) own making.
      - petee 7y ago
        That "obligation" is the core tenet of union representation, has nothing to do with contract, and it's also spelled out in a union's constitution. We are a collective of workers, and we defend each other. And who cares what the company asks for? If it were up to them you'd still be making $3 an hour on 14 hour days, 7 days a week, with no benefits, while they reap $10 billion in profit
booleandilemma 7y ago
Sounds like a stand up guy.

by 300bps 7y ago

sandoze 7y ago

How’s that any different than tech workers inflating story points 2x and indulging a work from home day or kicking off early. I mean other than no job security, pension, gold watch and forced obsolescence at 51.

Spooky23 7y ago
Nobody knows wtf tech workers do. There was a candy bar commercial where a bunch of suits were eating candy snickering at the lazy construction crew hanging out below. Pretty much captures it.

petee 7y ago

There will always be people who abuse the support the union offered, like your dad, who gives unions a bad rep - most members work with pride and want to do the best job they can. Time allotted work is intended to ensure jobs are done safely; not everyone will take that long, but it ensures slower workers aren't going to cut corners just to keep schedule. Without a union, your dad would have been expected to take 30min every single time, and lose your job if you don't.

ptaipale 7y ago
IMHO, in this kind of a case it's not the employee who gives union a bad rep - it's the union. Why do they actually support this kind of behaviour? (FWIW, it sounds this is actually worse in the US, where the unions are supposedly "weak", than in my country which has social democrats in government and "strong unions".)
- petee 7y ago
  No, its absolutely giving the union a bad rep by abusing its support. Keep in mind union officials rarely are physically present for the complaint at hand, so it is nearly always he-said, she-said. Likely the employee put up a fight, claimed a different take on the thing they got caught for, or it simply wasn't provable -- you absolutely can be fired for not doing your job, even if you are a union member! The protection the union gives is that you aren't fired on the spot without good reason or a fair shake. It forces the company to actually back up their reasons; not just Joe the manager didn't like you, or someone saw you take a 30 second break once. The fact that the guy was paid by AT&T to go away tells me he was good at playing the game, and good at not getting caught.
- Spooky23 7y ago
  Unions usually have an obligation to defend everyone as part of their contract. Like anything, the douchiest people are usually best at working the system, and it takes strong and competent management to get rid of the bad eggs.
  - gpm 7y ago
    And how did that "obligation" get into their contract? You can bet the company didn't ask for it. This sounds like a problem of their (union officials) own making.
    - petee 7y ago
      That "obligation" is the core tenet of union representation, has nothing to do with contract, and it's also spelled out in a union's constitution. We are a collective of workers, and we defend each other. And who cares what the company asks for? If it were up to them you'd still be making $3 an hour on 14 hour days, 7 days a week, with no benefits, while they reap $10 billion in profit

booleandilemma 7y ago

Sounds like a stand up guy.