5 ms·

"The average 2-5 year old is spending over 1,600 hours a year watching television." This seems nuts to me. That is 4.5 hours a day! For a 2 year old? Who are t

"The average 2-5 year old is spending over 1,600 hours a year watching television." This seems nuts to me. That is 4.5 hours a day! For a 2 year old? Who are these parents...

aczerepinski 7y ago
Childcare is super expensive. I think there are a ton of people who can’t afford it and use screen time to supplement. It keeps the kid safe in one spot while you can get stuff done. Keep in mind that letting a child play outside by themselves is essentially illegal.
- jak92 7y ago
  > child play outside by themselves is essentially illegal. No it's not.
  - aczerepinski 7y ago
    I encourage you to google it. People get arrested all around the country for letting their kids play in the park across the street, ride their bike around the block, sit in the car alone at the bank, etc.
    - WhompingWindows 7y ago
      What are the rates of arrest? I've seen a couple reports, but n=2 is not a data set.
    - mehrdadn 7y ago
      Probably depends on the area and other factors... in my area it was totally normal for kids to walk some half a mile to a mile home in middle school just over a decade ago and I don't think it's changed. I think even elementary school was normal with possibly a smaller distance (not sure how far kids went, but a couple blocks was fine).
      - rayiner 7y ago
        Twenty five years ago in my area, a mile to half a mile was routine for elementary school students. By middle school, I would come home to an empty house and go pick up my brother who was in kindergarten. Nowadays, my daughter is in elementary school and I see parents drive their cars up to the bus stop and hover until the bus comes.
        MattSayar 7y ago
        The majority of me thinks that parents today need to relax because the chance of your kid being kidnapped or whatever are about the lowest they've ever been. And then another part of me wonders if that's BECAUSE today's parents are paranoid.
    - kilo_bravo_3 7y ago
      The fact that "a handful of people" in "several places" over "the last 20 years" becomes "People get arrested all around the country" like it's an epidemic or something is one of many negative, and one of the worst, things about the internet. That and the fact that "oh and then the charges were dropped and in some cases local laws changed" is inevitably (I think purposefully) left out. Reason.com went on a year-long bender of self-promotion and half-truthing about 3 years ago when three women were arrested in three states, claiming that "jack-booted big gubmint was comin to take yer kerdz" and plastered people's pictures and stories on fundraising materials and tried to get people to buy their "free range kids" books, as though three incidents in a country of 300 million was an epidemic. Of course, the most confusing thing about all of this is that a Venn diagram of "people who think that the government is rounding up mothers all over the country" and "people who immediately, vocally, and vociferously criticize the government for NOT protecting the welfare of children" is a perfect circle.
      - fyz 7y ago
        This seems true, and also I think there's some nuance lost in the stats as well. My personal experience as a parent is that my kids don't get nearly the amount of independence that I did at their age. A reasonable part of this is that I am afraid that my kids will get taken away. My preference is towards the free(r)-range style of parenting, so the ex-post stats don't convey the full effect that the small sample size of reported "big gubmint takeaways" has.
    - chrisweekly 7y ago
      Huge exaggeration. Also, free-range parenting is a thing, but even in relatively "helicopter-y" families, the ability to send kids off somewhere w/ a phone to reconnect makes it easy to let kids of a certain age explore and exercise some freedom.
    - blobbers 7y ago
      I would encourage you not to google it. Google is full of worst case scenarios. https://www.mercurynews.com/2015/05/26/free-range-kids-the-upsides-of-relaxed-parenting/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2015/05/26/free-range-kids-the-u...
    - IloveHN84 7y ago
      But that was my typical afternoon as kid. Making it illegal forces kids to be dumb watching only TV
  - ceejayoz 7y ago
    Depends on the area a bit (by state, and how grumpy the particular cops involved are). My kids walk to school/playground/neighbors, but... https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/13/parents-investigated-letting-children-walk-alone/25700823/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/13/parent... > In December, the couple was accused of neglect for allowing the children to walk around their suburban Washington neighborhood together unaccompanied by an adult. In one instance, Rafi and Dvora were walking from a playground two blocks from home; in another, the park was about a mile away.
  - ramy_d 7y ago
    kind of is though https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/manitoba-cfs-will-not-erase-file-of-mother-who-lets-kids-play-in-backyard-1.2871900 https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/manitoba-cfs-will-not-erase-fi... https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/07/arrested-for-letting-a-9-year-old-play-at-the-park-alone/374436/ https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/07/arreste... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/protective-services-called-on-mom-for-letting-child-play-outside/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/protective-services-called-on-m... https://reason.com/2015/06/11/11-year-old-boy-played-in-his-yard-cps-t https://reason.com/2015/06/11/11-year-old-boy-played-in-his-...
    - apexalpha 7y ago
      Aren't these stories newsworthy because it is ridiculous to not let kids play outside?
      - ramy_d 7y ago
        have a kid and find out for us
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - quickthrower2 7y ago
      First one, not treated as a crime. But there is a record, so that sucks. Second one, leaving your 9 year old at a park all day while you are not there. I can see why that is a problem. The third one is maybe where the is controversy. It would be nice if a 6 year old could play on the street by themselves. I think there is some discretion here and it depends what your street and suburb is like to some extent. The last one is tragic and totally unfair to the family. Looks like another nail in the coffin for people without a lot of money in the US (who can't call a babysitter on short notice) and who use common sense. Then they get a criminal record, lose their jobs etc, can't get a new one etc. F'd.
  - mixmastamyk 7y ago
    Even worse when you don’t know if it will be arbitrarily enforced.
  - Consultant32452 7y ago
    You're right, it's not illegal, but there's been a MASSIVE chilling effect on outside play. Of my daughter's friend group, she has by far the most freedom. She's got free reign over our neighborhood which has two parks, a school, a couple lakes, and even a small wooded area kids can venture off into. But none of her friends are allowed to play outside. One friend of hers, 12 years old, is not allowed to ride her bike in her own driveway without a parent outside with her. Another friend of hers, 13, has never been allowed to spend the night at a friend's house. All of these other parents think I'm the crazy one for letting my kid play outside. She usually chooses not to, because it's hardly any fun to play alone. I know, anecdata and all that, but it's really crazy out there.
    - nojvek 7y ago
      Wow. Why can’t the kid spent a night out at her friends place ?
      - orthecreedence 7y ago
        Because after 7pm the streets are swarming with velociraptors and hoardes of drooling pedophiles and her little friend's parents don't have the latest in automated turret technology yet.
colordrops 7y ago
Yeah that was my first thought. Maybe kids are being saved from commercials but not from the screen.
vkou 7y ago
> Who are these parents They are two people, each of whom works at a job (Which is necessary for most families), who don't live with their retired parents (Who would watch, and play with grandkids for free), and can't afford a nanny. (Or, as rich engineers call them, an aupair.) In short - normal 21st century people. (And if they are single parents, this equation becomes even more screwed up. The problem with being a single parent, is that you have to live with whatever life decisions lead you up to that point, for the next 18 years.)
- blobbers 7y ago
  I definitely sympathize with what you're saying, but 4.5 hrs (on avg!) still seems like a lot. But there are alternatives. That said, I see working involved parents that hand their kids an iPad the minute they get home from daycare so I suppose it isn't out of the realm of possibility. I'm still a bit shocked that the distribution would result in 4.5 hrs on average. The bullet points from the referred page were actually more interesting: "TV viewing among kids is at an eight-year high. On average, children ages 2-5 spend 32 hours a week in front of a TV—watching television, DVDs, DVR and videos, and using a game console." [http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/tv http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/tv] I think this implies that kids playing video games (which at that age is mostly shape matching, colors, words, vocabulary) is included in television.
chapium 7y ago
Yeah, I'm going to call bs on this one. Perhaps they are including kids who have to have an ipad in front of them at every meal and every walk in their stroller?
- luckylion 7y ago
  I don't know, but here's a very similar stat from 2009 that makes it sound like this is only for TV: https://www.nielsen.com/us/en/insights/news/2009/tv-viewing-among-kids-at-an-eight-year-high.html https://www.nielsen.com/us/en/insights/news/2009/tv-viewing-... New findings from The Nielsen Company show kids aged 2-5 now spend more than 32 hours a week on average in front of a TV screen.
throwaway55554 7y ago
I wanna know what 2 year old can stare at a screen for 4.5 hours. All the 2's we've had have been all over the place and won't sit in front of a tv. Not that I'm complaining... Honest, I'm not. > Who are these parents... Remember "It takes a village"? Well, in all honesty, it does. And if you don't have a support system in place, you'll have a hard go of it.
- 3131s 7y ago
  They compulsively flick through videos and later vent their pent up energy through temper tantrums. I tutor a 3 year old boy for an ultra rich family, he's essentially raised by his nannies who let him do whatever he wants. Observing him using a tablet is pretty shocking, it's total zombie mode watching Elsa and Spiderman videos 15 seconds at a time before skipping to the next.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
alecco 7y ago
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusing_Ourselves_to_Death https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusing_Ourselves_to_Death

"The average 2-5 year old is spending over 1,600 hours a year watching television." This seems nuts to me. That is 4.5 hours a day! For a 2 year old? Who are these parents...

aczerepinski 7y ago

Childcare is super expensive. I think there are a ton of people who can’t afford it and use screen time to supplement. It keeps the kid safe in one spot while you can get stuff done. Keep in mind that letting a child play outside by themselves is essentially illegal.

jak92 7y ago
> child play outside by themselves is essentially illegal. No it's not.
- aczerepinski 7y ago
  I encourage you to google it. People get arrested all around the country for letting their kids play in the park across the street, ride their bike around the block, sit in the car alone at the bank, etc.
  - WhompingWindows 7y ago
    What are the rates of arrest? I've seen a couple reports, but n=2 is not a data set.
  - mehrdadn 7y ago
    Probably depends on the area and other factors... in my area it was totally normal for kids to walk some half a mile to a mile home in middle school just over a decade ago and I don't think it's changed. I think even elementary school was normal with possibly a smaller distance (not sure how far kids went, but a couple blocks was fine).
    - rayiner 7y ago
      Twenty five years ago in my area, a mile to half a mile was routine for elementary school students. By middle school, I would come home to an empty house and go pick up my brother who was in kindergarten. Nowadays, my daughter is in elementary school and I see parents drive their cars up to the bus stop and hover until the bus comes.
      - MattSayar 7y ago
        The majority of me thinks that parents today need to relax because the chance of your kid being kidnapped or whatever are about the lowest they've ever been. And then another part of me wonders if that's BECAUSE today's parents are paranoid.
  - kilo_bravo_3 7y ago
    The fact that "a handful of people" in "several places" over "the last 20 years" becomes "People get arrested all around the country" like it's an epidemic or something is one of many negative, and one of the worst, things about the internet. That and the fact that "oh and then the charges were dropped and in some cases local laws changed" is inevitably (I think purposefully) left out. Reason.com went on a year-long bender of self-promotion and half-truthing about 3 years ago when three women were arrested in three states, claiming that "jack-booted big gubmint was comin to take yer kerdz" and plastered people's pictures and stories on fundraising materials and tried to get people to buy their "free range kids" books, as though three incidents in a country of 300 million was an epidemic. Of course, the most confusing thing about all of this is that a Venn diagram of "people who think that the government is rounding up mothers all over the country" and "people who immediately, vocally, and vociferously criticize the government for NOT protecting the welfare of children" is a perfect circle.
    - fyz 7y ago
      This seems true, and also I think there's some nuance lost in the stats as well. My personal experience as a parent is that my kids don't get nearly the amount of independence that I did at their age. A reasonable part of this is that I am afraid that my kids will get taken away. My preference is towards the free(r)-range style of parenting, so the ex-post stats don't convey the full effect that the small sample size of reported "big gubmint takeaways" has.
  - chrisweekly 7y ago
    Huge exaggeration. Also, free-range parenting is a thing, but even in relatively "helicopter-y" families, the ability to send kids off somewhere w/ a phone to reconnect makes it easy to let kids of a certain age explore and exercise some freedom.
  - blobbers 7y ago
    I would encourage you not to google it. Google is full of worst case scenarios. https://www.mercurynews.com/2015/05/26/free-range-kids-the-upsides-of-relaxed-parenting/ https://www.mercurynews.com/2015/05/26/free-range-kids-the-u...
  - IloveHN84 7y ago
    But that was my typical afternoon as kid. Making it illegal forces kids to be dumb watching only TV
- ceejayoz 7y ago
  Depends on the area a bit (by state, and how grumpy the particular cops involved are). My kids walk to school/playground/neighbors, but... https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/13/parents-investigated-letting-children-walk-alone/25700823/ https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2015/04/13/parent... > In December, the couple was accused of neglect for allowing the children to walk around their suburban Washington neighborhood together unaccompanied by an adult. In one instance, Rafi and Dvora were walking from a playground two blocks from home; in another, the park was about a mile away.
- ramy_d 7y ago
  kind of is though https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/manitoba-cfs-will-not-erase-file-of-mother-who-lets-kids-play-in-backyard-1.2871900 https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/manitoba-cfs-will-not-erase-fi... https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/07/arrested-for-letting-a-9-year-old-play-at-the-park-alone/374436/ https://www.theatlantic.com/national/archive/2014/07/arreste... https://www.cbsnews.com/news/protective-services-called-on-mom-for-letting-child-play-outside/ https://www.cbsnews.com/news/protective-services-called-on-m... https://reason.com/2015/06/11/11-year-old-boy-played-in-his-yard-cps-t https://reason.com/2015/06/11/11-year-old-boy-played-in-his-...
  - apexalpha 7y ago
    Aren't these stories newsworthy because it is ridiculous to not let kids play outside?
    - ramy_d 7y ago
      have a kid and find out for us
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - quickthrower2 7y ago
    First one, not treated as a crime. But there is a record, so that sucks. Second one, leaving your 9 year old at a park all day while you are not there. I can see why that is a problem. The third one is maybe where the is controversy. It would be nice if a 6 year old could play on the street by themselves. I think there is some discretion here and it depends what your street and suburb is like to some extent. The last one is tragic and totally unfair to the family. Looks like another nail in the coffin for people without a lot of money in the US (who can't call a babysitter on short notice) and who use common sense. Then they get a criminal record, lose their jobs etc, can't get a new one etc. F'd.
- mixmastamyk 7y ago
  Even worse when you don’t know if it will be arbitrarily enforced.
- Consultant32452 7y ago
  You're right, it's not illegal, but there's been a MASSIVE chilling effect on outside play. Of my daughter's friend group, she has by far the most freedom. She's got free reign over our neighborhood which has two parks, a school, a couple lakes, and even a small wooded area kids can venture off into. But none of her friends are allowed to play outside. One friend of hers, 12 years old, is not allowed to ride her bike in her own driveway without a parent outside with her. Another friend of hers, 13, has never been allowed to spend the night at a friend's house. All of these other parents think I'm the crazy one for letting my kid play outside. She usually chooses not to, because it's hardly any fun to play alone. I know, anecdata and all that, but it's really crazy out there.
  - nojvek 7y ago
    Wow. Why can’t the kid spent a night out at her friends place ?
    - orthecreedence 7y ago
      Because after 7pm the streets are swarming with velociraptors and hoardes of drooling pedophiles and her little friend's parents don't have the latest in automated turret technology yet.

colordrops 7y ago

Yeah that was my first thought. Maybe kids are being saved from commercials but not from the screen.

vkou 7y ago

> Who are these parents They are two people, each of whom works at a job (Which is necessary for most families), who don't live with their retired parents (Who would watch, and play with grandkids for free), and can't afford a nanny. (Or, as rich engineers call them, an aupair.) In short - normal 21st century people. (And if they are single parents, this equation becomes even more screwed up. The problem with being a single parent, is that you have to live with whatever life decisions lead you up to that point, for the next 18 years.)

blobbers 7y ago
I definitely sympathize with what you're saying, but 4.5 hrs (on avg!) still seems like a lot. But there are alternatives. That said, I see working involved parents that hand their kids an iPad the minute they get home from daycare so I suppose it isn't out of the realm of possibility. I'm still a bit shocked that the distribution would result in 4.5 hrs on average. The bullet points from the referred page were actually more interesting: "TV viewing among kids is at an eight-year high. On average, children ages 2-5 spend 32 hours a week in front of a TV—watching television, DVDs, DVR and videos, and using a game console." [http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/tv http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/tv] I think this implies that kids playing video games (which at that age is mostly shape matching, colors, words, vocabulary) is included in television.

chapium 7y ago

Yeah, I'm going to call bs on this one. Perhaps they are including kids who have to have an ipad in front of them at every meal and every walk in their stroller?

luckylion 7y ago
I don't know, but here's a very similar stat from 2009 that makes it sound like this is only for TV: https://www.nielsen.com/us/en/insights/news/2009/tv-viewing-among-kids-at-an-eight-year-high.html https://www.nielsen.com/us/en/insights/news/2009/tv-viewing-... New findings from The Nielsen Company show kids aged 2-5 now spend more than 32 hours a week on average in front of a TV screen.

throwaway55554 7y ago

I wanna know what 2 year old can stare at a screen for 4.5 hours. All the 2's we've had have been all over the place and won't sit in front of a tv. Not that I'm complaining... Honest, I'm not. > Who are these parents... Remember "It takes a village"? Well, in all honesty, it does. And if you don't have a support system in place, you'll have a hard go of it.

3131s 7y ago
They compulsively flick through videos and later vent their pent up energy through temper tantrums. I tutor a 3 year old boy for an ultra rich family, he's essentially raised by his nannies who let him do whatever he wants. Observing him using a tablet is pretty shocking, it's total zombie mode watching Elsa and Spiderman videos 15 seconds at a time before skipping to the next.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

alecco 7y ago

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusing_Ourselves_to_Death https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusing_Ourselves_to_Death