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Yea, you're right. AT&T never promised those jobs. They just kept talking about all the jobs that would be made if the tax cut happened. That was the main argum
by lovich 8y ago
Yea, you're right. AT&T never promised those jobs. They just kept talking about all the jobs that would be made if the tax cut happened. That was the main argument when they tax cuts came up, all the job that would be created. But yea, no one made an actual promise.
The reason people are upset is the same reason no one likes talking to lawyer, and why no one wants to deal with corporate or political leaders who need to be talked to like a genie to make sure your wish doesn't get twisted around.
If the response to this event and to the fiber optic debacle is "wElL tEcHniCalLy We DiDnT pRoMiSe" then why should any tax breaks be considered in the future for any company? What is the reason to believe any statement about the benefits that will come through if we could just release these poor corporate giants from their terrible tax burden, if experience shows that they never come through?
- javagram 8y ago> why should any tax breaks be considered in the future for any company Unemployment in the USA after the tax cuts is at historically low levels that haven’t been seen in more than four decades. The economy is booming. Taxes on corporations are mainly good to encourage corporate behavior, revenue can be obtained by taxing the wealthy directly as well. Increasing taxes such as the capital gains tax while keeping corporate taxes at their reformed, globally competitive levels seems the way to go to me...
- JaimeThompson 8y agoIf the economy is doing so well why haven't non-tech wages been increasing at a faster rate?
- javagram 8y agohttps://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/13/worker-wage-gains-are-keeping-up-with-inflation-and-then-some.html https://www.cnbc.com/2019/02/13/worker-wage-gains-are-keepin... > Worker paychecks are showing their biggest gains since the recovery began a decade ago, and are more than keeping up with inflation. Not sure why tech wages are excluded from your comment. Tech jobs are jobs too...
- throwaway55554 8y ago> Worker paychecks are showing their biggest gains since the recovery began a decade ago Ok, but they didn't really grow at all for a decade.
- fuzz4lyfe 8y agoTotal comp went up[0], most of the additional funds went to insurance. [0]https://talkmarkets.com/content/us-markets/average-hourly-pay-and-benefits-in-the-united-states?post=205696 https://talkmarkets.com/content/us-markets/average-hourly-pa...
- throwaway55554 8y agoWages and Salaries 5% over 14 years. 0.35% per year. Total compensation 9% over 14 years. 0.64% per year. I guess technically I'm wrong.
- Frondo 8y agoWith 1 in 8 Americans living underneath the federal poverty line, and 10% of employed American adults facing food insecurity (i.e. hunger), it's arguably not the case that the economy is booming. As for what you can credit the tax cuts with, well, here you go: https://www.marketwatch.com/story/its-official-the-trump-tax-cuts-were-a-bust-2019-01-30 https://www.marketwatch.com/story/its-official-the-trump-tax... The tl;dr: share buybacks and corporate profits are the biggest consequence of the TCJA, not employment.
- javagram 8y agoI don’t see what those two statistics have to do with whether the economy is booming. Would you argue the economy has never boomed before? 1 in 8 Americans below the federal poverty line seems to be pretty decent when seen historically according to https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Number_in_Poverty_and_Poverty_Rate,_1959_to_2017.png#mw-jump-to-license https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Number_in_Poverty_... Numbers for 2018 don’t seem to be available yet but I’d assume they continue to trend down.
- fulafel 8y agoAnother view is that the US is as bad as ever compared to peers: https://www.statista.com/statistics/233910/poverty-rates-in-oecd-countries/ https://www.statista.com/statistics/233910/poverty-rates-in-...
- fuzz4lyfe 8y agoMexico has lower rates of poverty than the US? It wants me to pay to see how they gather the data but 33% of Mexicans live on less than $5 a day[0] while "42% of Mexico's total population living below the national poverty line" yet the rate in your graph is 16.7% [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_Mexico https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_Mexico
- fulafel 8y agoIt's true that the oecd definition kind of breaks on poor countries with low median income. But still the list is interesting if you look at the more comparable rich countries vs the US.
- dalore 8y agoUnemployment is at low levels globally, not just USA. I would say it's some sort of global trend not because of tax cuts in the USA. https://www.ft.com/content/1e8f4cf4-f257-11e8-ae55-df4bf40f9d0d https://www.ft.com/content/1e8f4cf4-f257-11e8-ae55-df4bf40f9... > economists attribute to changes including more flexible working practices, lower wages and rock-bottom interest rates.
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- Bombthecat 8y agoI think the millions of barely paid, two or three jobs at the same time, people would like to have a talk with you.
- Retric 8y agoThat’s a false statistic. The employment rate is 4% below what it was in 2000 and has barely recovered from the recession. https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/employment-rate https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/employment-rate Unemployment rate is useful in the short term, but it’s not comparable across longer time periods as they kick people off the lists very quickly.
- javagram 8y agoEmployment rate is a false statistic if anything. The population is aging since childbirth rates have gone way down over the last few decades. A larger percent of adults are retired now and are included in that employment rate statistic. If you just want to include people “kicked” off the lists, U-6 may be what you’re looking for. https://unemploymentdata.com/current-u6-unemployment-rate/ https://unemploymentdata.com/current-u6-unemployment-rate/ It’s as low as it’s been in almost two decades. Not quite as record breaking as the U-3 but still pretty good...
- mjevans 8y agoIs that how you get on U-6... how do they count those who've never been employed? E.G. recent grads from schooling?
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- amanaplanacanal 8y agoLooking at those charts, I don't see any place where the tax cut kicked in. Looks like the trend just continues from before the tax cut. Looks like your mention of the tax cut is completely unrelated to unemployment figures.
- javagram 8y agoSome economists believe the tax cut and other spending has been juicing the economy, leading to the record numbers we are seeing right now. I recently listened to a NYT podcast where they discussed this theory briefly, but I’ve also been seeing it from some economists I follow on Twitter. https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-argument/id1438024613?i=1000437579770 https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-argument/id1438024... Of course as with any economics prediction it’s hard to prove what the alternate history would have been, but the idea is that the economy would have slowed down and U-3 unemployment wouldn’t have dropped to historic lows without the additional cash injection thanks to recent economic policies. Edit: in general I think jobs numbers are very relevant to this whole thread since the article is attempting to sell the premise that the tax cuts didn’t help job growth (by using the specific example of AT&T jobs - even though this tax cut was for every company not just AT&T) despite the overall economy doing well, jobs increasing, and unemployment decreasing.
- skookumchuck 8y agoYet employment levels are at historic highs. Clearly, something is working well after the tax cut.
- jhayward 8y agoA trillion dollar tax cut that raises the annual deficit to over a trillion dollars a year can certainly ignite some economic activity. So can lighting a bonfire using the household furniture and next year's crop of seed corn. This isn't organic economic growth, it is the lowest form of political populism that doesn't even pretend to be an actual economic policy intended to make the US economy strong.