6 ms·

Just that learning to halt subvocal speech even for a couple of seconds seems to be a much harder task than learning keeping an untrained hand still. There seem

by kekebo 7y ago

Just that learning to halt subvocal speech even for a couple of seconds seems to be a much harder task than learning keeping an untrained hand still. There seems to be active resistance, a compulsion to internally vocalize, even (/especially) when detrimental. Unlearning it seems possible but no easy task, requiring a large amount of hours and determination in my experience.

kaybe 7y ago
Is there a good way to notice you're doing subvocal speech?
- Loughla 7y ago
  Meditation and mindfulness has helped me. I noticed that my 'internal dialogue' was what started anxiety spirals and depression. Meditation and mindfulness practice seem to help. I think that just like any muscle, the brain can be exercised in a certain direction. But holy shit is it infuriating to start meditating. Do you realize how much time you spend in your own head? Like all of it.
- kekebo 7y ago
  Mindfulness type exercises / learning internal silence was the only effective strategy i found. I can still get carried away in my thoughts but there's a learned recurring return into silence that also gives room for meta cognitions of various sorts. The more I "practice" the more subconscious those silent moments appear, the higher their frequency and the easier it is to maintain longer stretches of them - and the more enjoyable it is to entertain them, in the beginning it can feel like a pointless bore.
  - lanstin 7y ago
    And going to interviews without preparing what to say is good practise for letting thoughts come and go without deciding till you have decided.
  - mistermann 7y ago
    There is also growing evidence that microdosing psychedelics like LSD or psilocybin can be beneficial: https://www.forbes.com/sites/willburns/2018/02/26/the-beckley-foundation-intends-to-study-links-between-microdosing-lsd-and-creativity/#6610d2206406 https://www.forbes.com/sites/willburns/2018/02/26/the-beckle... What's happening in the brain exactly that gives people an advantage? What is the brain science behind microdosing LSD? The effects of microdosing in the brain are not known, which is why I am setting up an international research program to investigate how microdosing, both acutely and after repeated doses, may produce changes in brain function. Our results with higher doses of LSD show that LSD revealed important changes in the way different brain regions communicate with each other, resulting in a more integrated and fluid brain state. The Beckley/Imperial Research Program found that LSD makes the brain much more connected and flexible. Both the psilocybin and LSD studies showed a decrease in blood flow to the “default mode network” (DMN), meaning there was less activity in the parts of the brain that repress other parts that maintain the normal, restricted status quo. The DMN is activated when the mind is wandering, not committed to a task, but overlooking the past and planning the future, and thinking about one’s self and one’s emotional state. An overactive DMN underlies the excessive rumination associated with psychological disorders such as depression, anxiety, addiction and post-traumatic stress disorder. A microdose likely lessens the rigidity of the DMN, making the brain more flexible. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5853825/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5853825/ Second, like Huxley’s cerebral reducing valve and Freud’s ego, EBT argues that the DMN’s organizational stronghold over brain activity can be both an evolutionary advantage and a source of pathology. “It is argued that this entropy-suppressing function of the human brain serves to promote realism, foresight, careful reflection and an ability to recognize and overcome wishful and paranoid fantasies. Equally however, it could be seen as exerting a limiting or narrowing influence on consciousness” (Carhart-Harris et al., 2014, p. 7). Carhart-Harris et al. (2014) point out that neuroimaging studies have implicated increased DMN activity and RSFC with various aspects of depressive rumination, trait neuroticism, and depression. “The suggestion is that increased DMN activity and connectivity in mild depression promotes concerted introspection and an especially diligent style of reality-testing. However, what may be gained in mild depression (i.e., accurate reality testing) may be offset by a reciprocal decrease in flexible or divergent thinking (and positive mood)” (Carhart-Harris et al., 2014, p. 10). Third, consistent with both psychoanalytic and filtration theory, is the notion that psychedelic drugs’ capacity to temporarily weaken, collapse, or disintegrate the normal ego/DMN stronghold underpins their therapeutic utility. “Specifically, it is proposed that psychedelics work by dismantling reinforced patterns of negative thought and behavior by breaking down the stable spatiotemporal patterns of brain activity upon which they rest” (Carhart-Harris et al., 2014, p. 1).
  - gowld 7y ago
    Doea that help you notice , or help you get better at suppressing it via practice and "muscle memory"?
    - kekebo 7y ago
      The more quiet moments there are to reflect upon my thinking, the easier it becomes to notice and correct. I wouldn't call it suppressing, trying to apply 'force' in cognition usually leads to more internal conflict instead of resolution, at least in my experience.
- rzzzt 7y ago
  Making note of the absence of it is easier, in my experience (also, for me, the outside world needs to be silent as well). It is a really interesting state to be in.

by kekebo 7y ago

kaybe 7y ago

Is there a good way to notice you're doing subvocal speech?

Loughla 7y ago
Meditation and mindfulness has helped me. I noticed that my 'internal dialogue' was what started anxiety spirals and depression. Meditation and mindfulness practice seem to help. I think that just like any muscle, the brain can be exercised in a certain direction. But holy shit is it infuriating to start meditating. Do you realize how much time you spend in your own head? Like all of it.
kekebo 7y ago
Mindfulness type exercises / learning internal silence was the only effective strategy i found. I can still get carried away in my thoughts but there's a learned recurring return into silence that also gives room for meta cognitions of various sorts. The more I "practice" the more subconscious those silent moments appear, the higher their frequency and the easier it is to maintain longer stretches of them - and the more enjoyable it is to entertain them, in the beginning it can feel like a pointless bore.
- lanstin 7y ago
  And going to interviews without preparing what to say is good practise for letting thoughts come and go without deciding till you have decided.
- mistermann 7y ago
  There is also growing evidence that microdosing psychedelics like LSD or psilocybin can be beneficial: https://www.forbes.com/sites/willburns/2018/02/26/the-beckley-foundation-intends-to-study-links-between-microdosing-lsd-and-creativity/#6610d2206406 https://www.forbes.com/sites/willburns/2018/02/26/the-beckle... What's happening in the brain exactly that gives people an advantage? What is the brain science behind microdosing LSD? The effects of microdosing in the brain are not known, which is why I am setting up an international research program to investigate how microdosing, both acutely and after repeated doses, may produce changes in brain function. Our results with higher doses of LSD show that LSD revealed important changes in the way different brain regions communicate with each other, resulting in a more integrated and fluid brain state. The Beckley/Imperial Research Program found that LSD makes the brain much more connected and flexible. Both the psilocybin and LSD studies showed a decrease in blood flow to the “default mode network” (DMN), meaning there was less activity in the parts of the brain that repress other parts that maintain the normal, restricted status quo. The DMN is activated when the mind is wandering, not committed to a task, but overlooking the past and planning the future, and thinking about one’s self and one’s emotional state. An overactive DMN underlies the excessive rumination associated with psychological disorders such as depression, anxiety, addiction and post-traumatic stress disorder. A microdose likely lessens the rigidity of the DMN, making the brain more flexible. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5853825/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5853825/ Second, like Huxley’s cerebral reducing valve and Freud’s ego, EBT argues that the DMN’s organizational stronghold over brain activity can be both an evolutionary advantage and a source of pathology. “It is argued that this entropy-suppressing function of the human brain serves to promote realism, foresight, careful reflection and an ability to recognize and overcome wishful and paranoid fantasies. Equally however, it could be seen as exerting a limiting or narrowing influence on consciousness” (Carhart-Harris et al., 2014, p. 7). Carhart-Harris et al. (2014) point out that neuroimaging studies have implicated increased DMN activity and RSFC with various aspects of depressive rumination, trait neuroticism, and depression. “The suggestion is that increased DMN activity and connectivity in mild depression promotes concerted introspection and an especially diligent style of reality-testing. However, what may be gained in mild depression (i.e., accurate reality testing) may be offset by a reciprocal decrease in flexible or divergent thinking (and positive mood)” (Carhart-Harris et al., 2014, p. 10). Third, consistent with both psychoanalytic and filtration theory, is the notion that psychedelic drugs’ capacity to temporarily weaken, collapse, or disintegrate the normal ego/DMN stronghold underpins their therapeutic utility. “Specifically, it is proposed that psychedelics work by dismantling reinforced patterns of negative thought and behavior by breaking down the stable spatiotemporal patterns of brain activity upon which they rest” (Carhart-Harris et al., 2014, p. 1).
- gowld 7y ago
  Doea that help you notice , or help you get better at suppressing it via practice and "muscle memory"?
  - kekebo 7y ago
    The more quiet moments there are to reflect upon my thinking, the easier it becomes to notice and correct. I wouldn't call it suppressing, trying to apply 'force' in cognition usually leads to more internal conflict instead of resolution, at least in my experience.
rzzzt 7y ago
Making note of the absence of it is easier, in my experience (also, for me, the outside world needs to be silent as well). It is a really interesting state to be in.