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Not really. Wix and GoDaddy clobbered it, and now there are others. At one point I had over 30 sites requiring regular maintenance, and upgrades. Plus a few

by CareyB 7y ago

Not really. Wix and GoDaddy clobbered it, and now there are others. At one point I had over 30 sites requiring regular maintenance, and upgrades. Plus a few I developed, installed on other servers, and did not maintain. Now I’m down to about four. These days there’s almost always someone in a small business’ office with the requisite skills to do basic upgrades, and small changes. I get called when things go wrong, or there’s a major overhaul in the offing. Many small businesses do quite well with a Facebook page, or some other self development tool. The sites look amateurish, and derivative, but they get the job done. All you want is the ‘Who, what, where, when, and why’, and standards are so low there’s no functional penalty for having a lame Web presence. I find more clients hiring full time ‘social media’ specialists rather than me. I have pondered becoming a ‘social media expert’, but the fact that I have worked building some of the early experiments taints me against the concept. Almost all Web sites are similar these days, and there’s a value to designing the UI/UX in a way users expect. I suggest that, for startups, and small businesses, there’s virtually no need for anything other than a basic Web presence. With the rise of social media, the appropriate account(s) will solve that problem for most. I worked through the wild west of this industry, and it was semi-fun, but I think we’ve moved on, things have settled down, or are settling down, and there’s a minimum sufficient requirement for a Web presence that’s pretty freakin’ minimal.

usgroup 7y ago
I’d contend this. Just spoke to a mate last week turning £250k at a 50% margin doing nothing but websites and SEO for B2B clients. Websites need design, visual assets, integrations, customised features, etc. It’s definitely a volume trade: you need to primarily be concerned with new biz, but it’ll be viable for a long time to come if you know what you’re doing .
- ryanSrich 7y ago
  Agreed. I’ve no idea which businesses OP is talking about. Even if he’s referring to small mom and pop shops or local bakeries I’d argue that design, content and SEO matter. For startups it’s even more important.
- jtanderson 7y ago
  Agreed. "Basic web presence" is important, but there are a ton of businesses that could benefit from and desire small, custom, web-features. I spent some freelance time in this space, making about $75-100 per hour of pure profit, purely developing against existing web infrastructure to add small, but meaningful, features for various business sites (often hosted on GoDaddy or similar). These varied from custom client communication forms, payment integration, simple admin tools, etc. Ultimately I stopped because I didn't care about the extra cash more than my free time (competing with grad school), but could have easily filled 40 hours per week with the requests I got. I think it heavily depends on your network and the market in your location. Sure, if you're in the Bay Area, freelance might not make sense; but find a city with 100-200k population and start building a network among small-business owners/operators and you can do just fine.
  - potta_coffee 7y ago
    Do you have any strategies for building a network with small businesses like you describe? I have 2 or 3 clients right now, not enough work to keep me busy full-time, but I keep them happy and they love my work. I need more clients in order to reach critical mass but I have no idea how to pull it off.
    - jrumbut 7y ago
      Your best clients are you past and present employers/clients. If 2-3 represents all of them then I would just put in conversation with them that you'd appreciate any referrals they can make and if you think it would help offer them some financial benefit for it (the amount is culture dependent, I find). If you exhaust them and the rest of your professional network, try local industry meetups (especially industries that you have made sites for before). If all else fails then try your luck in the forums and job boards. I suggest taking on small stuff to get your foot in the door and aggressively vetting the personal and business characteristics of new clients for this way. I'm back to full time employment though so make of that what you will!
      - potta_coffee 7y ago
elorant 7y ago
Going down the social media expert path with a web development background can be very lucrative. 95% of the work done can be automated and the competition is primarily marketing guys who can't code shit. I've been literally shocked when I realized what most shops charge to handle social media accounts for their clients considering the amount of work done, which basically is a few minutes per day.
- unicornporn 7y ago
  > 95% of the work done can be automated and the competition is primarily marketing guys who can't code shit. What exactly would you try to automate? (Having done some coding) I see very little room for automation. Social media marketing is all about strategy and content. Or is it not?
  - AznHisoka 7y ago
    You can automate: 1) Curating third-party content to post. 2) Scheduling owned content to post. 3) Sending DMs to new followers.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
  - xondono 7y ago
    Content generation can be automated if you know what you are doing. Also, it’s not only about content but about proper timing and strategy in your communications.
    - justaguyhere 7y ago
      I don't understand how good content can be automated either. Recycling content, finding out optimal posting times, posting content ... sure, these can all be automated. But how do you automate generating content, especially good content and not article spinners or whatever? Can you explain?
mxuribe 7y ago
100% THIS! To your point about "becoming a social media expert", I actually began lightly dabbling in this, and felt nauseous after some time...Allow me to describe: You begin admirably trying to help a business (or individual) to gain legitimate views and insights from their audience...but hoping to grow to full, positive engagements, and so forth - not for merely having a social media presence, but rather, with the overarching goal of growing their business, or meeting some other business goal of theirs...and eventually, they begin to get addicted, and whether its a true value to their business goals or not, they begin chasing the dragon of growth. And, much like i can only imagine like drugs - they get hooked. Whatever ethical advice i would provide is ignored, and they only want advice on how to grow their audience like crazy (think: hockey stick growth numbers, etc.) including employing fake follow bot accounts, etc. Their "chase" for ever more audience continues on a darker route...wanting ever more clicks/likes/views/attention - even at the risk of their business' main value proposition. They begin outright ignoring your continuous protests. You begin to feel sick - as if somehow you are the gun salesperson selling a gun to a person you are only now discovering is dangerous. Your client keeps pushing you for more and more dark patterns to employ, and you continue to refuse...ultimately ending the business relationship. Now...are all clients like what i noted above? No, i'm sure there are good clients out there that don't go dark...But for me, I kept encountering the dark ones. So, for what its worth, I would not go down the route of being a social media expert. Good luck, and cheers!
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- yeahitslikethat 7y ago
  Is not just social media. This is a problem in all aspects of human life. The drive for more more more! Nothing is ever enough.
  - povertyworld 7y ago
    Indeed. Lucky for us flint hand-axes weren't enough for our ancestors.
tambourine_man 7y ago
Do you mind sharing what will you do next then?
savrajsingh 7y ago
It's amazing that its taken over 20 years for other players to actually take this space over. Given how fast we move in tech it's surprising that it's taken so long and there's so much room for so many players (wix, squarespace, godaddy, etc etc)
KingFelix 7y ago
I agree, What are you working on now?
tmaly 7y ago
I wonder to what degree helping to setup an email newsletter and maintaining it would go hand in hand with the social media side?

by CareyB 7y ago

usgroup 7y ago

I’d contend this. Just spoke to a mate last week turning £250k at a 50% margin doing nothing but websites and SEO for B2B clients. Websites need design, visual assets, integrations, customised features, etc. It’s definitely a volume trade: you need to primarily be concerned with new biz, but it’ll be viable for a long time to come if you know what you’re doing .

ryanSrich 7y ago
Agreed. I’ve no idea which businesses OP is talking about. Even if he’s referring to small mom and pop shops or local bakeries I’d argue that design, content and SEO matter. For startups it’s even more important.
jtanderson 7y ago
Agreed. "Basic web presence" is important, but there are a ton of businesses that could benefit from and desire small, custom, web-features. I spent some freelance time in this space, making about $75-100 per hour of pure profit, purely developing against existing web infrastructure to add small, but meaningful, features for various business sites (often hosted on GoDaddy or similar). These varied from custom client communication forms, payment integration, simple admin tools, etc. Ultimately I stopped because I didn't care about the extra cash more than my free time (competing with grad school), but could have easily filled 40 hours per week with the requests I got. I think it heavily depends on your network and the market in your location. Sure, if you're in the Bay Area, freelance might not make sense; but find a city with 100-200k population and start building a network among small-business owners/operators and you can do just fine.
- potta_coffee 7y ago
  Do you have any strategies for building a network with small businesses like you describe? I have 2 or 3 clients right now, not enough work to keep me busy full-time, but I keep them happy and they love my work. I need more clients in order to reach critical mass but I have no idea how to pull it off.
  - jrumbut 7y ago
    Your best clients are you past and present employers/clients. If 2-3 represents all of them then I would just put in conversation with them that you'd appreciate any referrals they can make and if you think it would help offer them some financial benefit for it (the amount is culture dependent, I find). If you exhaust them and the rest of your professional network, try local industry meetups (especially industries that you have made sites for before). If all else fails then try your luck in the forums and job boards. I suggest taking on small stuff to get your foot in the door and aggressively vetting the personal and business characteristics of new clients for this way. I'm back to full time employment though so make of that what you will!
    - potta_coffee 7y ago

elorant 7y ago

Going down the social media expert path with a web development background can be very lucrative. 95% of the work done can be automated and the competition is primarily marketing guys who can't code shit. I've been literally shocked when I realized what most shops charge to handle social media accounts for their clients considering the amount of work done, which basically is a few minutes per day.

unicornporn 7y ago
> 95% of the work done can be automated and the competition is primarily marketing guys who can't code shit. What exactly would you try to automate? (Having done some coding) I see very little room for automation. Social media marketing is all about strategy and content. Or is it not?
- AznHisoka 7y ago
  You can automate: 1) Curating third-party content to post. 2) Scheduling owned content to post. 3) Sending DMs to new followers.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
- xondono 7y ago
  Content generation can be automated if you know what you are doing. Also, it’s not only about content but about proper timing and strategy in your communications.
  - justaguyhere 7y ago
    I don't understand how good content can be automated either. Recycling content, finding out optimal posting times, posting content ... sure, these can all be automated. But how do you automate generating content, especially good content and not article spinners or whatever? Can you explain?

mxuribe 7y ago

100% THIS! To your point about "becoming a social media expert", I actually began lightly dabbling in this, and felt nauseous after some time...Allow me to describe: You begin admirably trying to help a business (or individual) to gain legitimate views and insights from their audience...but hoping to grow to full, positive engagements, and so forth - not for merely having a social media presence, but rather, with the overarching goal of growing their business, or meeting some other business goal of theirs...and eventually, they begin to get addicted, and whether its a true value to their business goals or not, they begin chasing the dragon of growth. And, much like i can only imagine like drugs - they get hooked. Whatever ethical advice i would provide is ignored, and they only want advice on how to grow their audience like crazy (think: hockey stick growth numbers, etc.) including employing fake follow bot accounts, etc. Their "chase" for ever more audience continues on a darker route...wanting ever more clicks/likes/views/attention - even at the risk of their business' main value proposition. They begin outright ignoring your continuous protests. You begin to feel sick - as if somehow you are the gun salesperson selling a gun to a person you are only now discovering is dangerous. Your client keeps pushing you for more and more dark patterns to employ, and you continue to refuse...ultimately ending the business relationship. Now...are all clients like what i noted above? No, i'm sure there are good clients out there that don't go dark...But for me, I kept encountering the dark ones. So, for what its worth, I would not go down the route of being a social media expert. Good luck, and cheers!

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
yeahitslikethat 7y ago
Is not just social media. This is a problem in all aspects of human life. The drive for more more more! Nothing is ever enough.
- povertyworld 7y ago
  Indeed. Lucky for us flint hand-axes weren't enough for our ancestors.

tambourine_man 7y ago

Do you mind sharing what will you do next then?

savrajsingh 7y ago

It's amazing that its taken over 20 years for other players to actually take this space over. Given how fast we move in tech it's surprising that it's taken so long and there's so much room for so many players (wix, squarespace, godaddy, etc etc)

KingFelix 7y ago

I agree, What are you working on now?

tmaly 7y ago

I wonder to what degree helping to setup an email newsletter and maintaining it would go hand in hand with the social media side?