4 ms·

I fully agree with all your points, and you are obviously lucky to live in a society where free public transportation may be able to work (I have never been to

by lqet 7y ago

I fully agree with all your points, and you are obviously lucky to live in a society where free public transportation may be able to work (I have never been to Tallinn). Even before I edited my comment, I never claimed that such a system would never work, and it is great that it seems to work for now in Tallinn. But you should not make the mistake to assume that what works in your city, will work in general (although I wish it would be like that in this case). > Also I think you might be hanging out with very wrong crowds if you think that the majority of society would not go on public transport because some lower class people might be on it. I don't understand this part. This is an opinion I formed after riding in dozens of public transportation systems in Europe and the US for over a decade. Should I have restricted my travels to cities without this problem to protect the romantic worldview of my late teens?

Strom 7y ago
> But you should not make the mistake to assume that what works in your city, will work in general Sure, I expect it to be harder in places like the US that have a lot of stigma around welfare. However on that note, Estonia isn't actually that big on welfare either. Thus I think there's potential for this to work in most of Europe without insurmountable difficulties. > Should I have restricted my travels to cities without this problem to protect the romantic worldview of my late teens? I was basing my comment on the idea of you having actually talked to people and then the majority telling you that they don't want to ride the public transport because of poor people. However if you haven't actually gotten this feedback from the majority you've talked to and are basing it on some other experience, then I guess I would be skeptical of your methodology. -- I guess most of all, I have a hard time believing that people in most places would decide their travel method based on how much their fellow traveler earns. The thing that I can definitely see being an issue is hygiene/smells, but this stuff will annoy everyone, including minimum wage workers, and rich people can also stink of sweat.
- lqet 7y ago
  > I guess most of all, I have a hard time believing that people in most places would decide their travel method basend on how much their fellow traveler earns. The thing that I can definitely see being an issue is hygiene/smells, but this stuff will annoy everyone, including minimum wage workers, and rich people can also stink of sweat. The problem is not the salary of your fellow traveler (which would be ridicoulus), or hygiene, or snobbism. The problem is fear of crime, be it justified or not. > However if you haven't actually gotten this feedback from the majority you've talked to and are basing it on some other experience, then I guess I would be suspicious of your methodology. Ha, checkmate! I withdraw :)
  - Strom 7y ago
    > The problem is fear of crime. I imagine most pickpocketing is done due to lack of funds. Not having to buy a transport ticket will leave these people with additional funds. If anything, I would guess this kind of welfare would reduce the reasons to steal. Then there's the point that people who would pickpocket probably wouldn't buy a ticket even if required. However maybe most importantly, not letting these pickpocketers on the bus would just move the location of the act. They could hunt for wallets at the bus stops instead, without getting on. Thus I think this problem needs to be addressed independently and shouldn't be too big of a factor in public transport decisions. I recognize your point however that if there's a theft problem in an area, people can become afraid of public transport due to it.

by lqet 7y ago

Strom 7y ago

> But you should not make the mistake to assume that what works in your city, will work in general Sure, I expect it to be harder in places like the US that have a lot of stigma around welfare. However on that note, Estonia isn't actually that big on welfare either. Thus I think there's potential for this to work in most of Europe without insurmountable difficulties. > Should I have restricted my travels to cities without this problem to protect the romantic worldview of my late teens? I was basing my comment on the idea of you having actually talked to people and then the majority telling you that they don't want to ride the public transport because of poor people. However if you haven't actually gotten this feedback from the majority you've talked to and are basing it on some other experience, then I guess I would be skeptical of your methodology. -- I guess most of all, I have a hard time believing that people in most places would decide their travel method based on how much their fellow traveler earns. The thing that I can definitely see being an issue is hygiene/smells, but this stuff will annoy everyone, including minimum wage workers, and rich people can also stink of sweat.

lqet 7y ago
> I guess most of all, I have a hard time believing that people in most places would decide their travel method basend on how much their fellow traveler earns. The thing that I can definitely see being an issue is hygiene/smells, but this stuff will annoy everyone, including minimum wage workers, and rich people can also stink of sweat. The problem is not the salary of your fellow traveler (which would be ridicoulus), or hygiene, or snobbism. The problem is fear of crime, be it justified or not. > However if you haven't actually gotten this feedback from the majority you've talked to and are basing it on some other experience, then I guess I would be suspicious of your methodology. Ha, checkmate! I withdraw :)
- Strom 7y ago
  > The problem is fear of crime. I imagine most pickpocketing is done due to lack of funds. Not having to buy a transport ticket will leave these people with additional funds. If anything, I would guess this kind of welfare would reduce the reasons to steal. Then there's the point that people who would pickpocket probably wouldn't buy a ticket even if required. However maybe most importantly, not letting these pickpocketers on the bus would just move the location of the act. They could hunt for wallets at the bus stops instead, without getting on. Thus I think this problem needs to be addressed independently and shouldn't be too big of a factor in public transport decisions. I recognize your point however that if there's a theft problem in an area, people can become afraid of public transport due to it.