5 ms·

Absolutely. But no more naughty than USA or Israel, as far as I can tell.

by eof 7y ago

dash2 7y ago
Hmm, I don’t want to get into a state wickedness bidding war, but the US/Israel are democracies where you are unlikely to be eg locked up without a fair trial. Contrast with the fate of the Uighurs. In foreign policy it’s more balanced (supporting Syria vs Saudi Arabia) but even there, Russia is clearly trying to subvert foreign democracies. China is (perhaps reasonably) pushing for more power in Asia. And while the US support for human rights is patchy, China’s is non-existent. Then there’s the Palestinians... (sigh)
- strictfp 7y ago
  Story time. A close friend of mine was held in custody in the US based on false accusations by a police officer. The police officer later admitted the false accusations to the judge, that he just wanted to "scare him a bit". The judge nodded, proceeded to aquit him of all offenses exept the speeding ticket which he deserved, and off he went.
  - deleted 7y ago
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  - Krasnol 7y ago
    Yeah that's local corruption and still far away from what the Uigurs have to go through which is state policy.
    - deleted 7y ago
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- dbrgn 7y ago
  And you think the US isn't trying to subvert foreign democracies?
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- simiones 7y ago
  Which democracies is Russia trying to subvert in ways the US isn't? You could argue that Russia is supporting nationalist movements in most of Europe, but there are very similar efforts from the US. For example, in my own country, Romania, US religious groups stoked local religious groups to initiate a referendum to change of our constitution to ban gay marriage (they actually made it through all the steps and the referendum was held, but so few people showed up to vote that it fell through). Would this count? It was done through false news and propaganda (and probably some minor corruption, but that's just par for the course), but otherwise through legal means - same as all modern Russian influence in Europe that I've heard of. Let's not forget that the US has explicitly assassinated its own citizens for 'suspicion of terrorism' as well, though they're at least not assassinating their own citizens on their own territory, and not in the kind of huge numbers that Russia and China are.
- deleted 7y ago
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- lm28469 7y ago
  > US/Israel are democracies where you are unlikely to be eg locked up without a fair trial. MKULTRA, guantanamo, Stuxnet, PRISM and other 3 letters agency abuses [0][1], &c. and that's only the stuff we know about. > Then there’s the Palestinians... (sigh) See: https://www.dw.com/en/trumps-golan-recognition-a-dangerous-precedent/a-48037886 https://www.dw.com/en/trumps-golan-recognition-a-dangerous-p... [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance_disclosures_(2013–present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance_disclosure... [1] https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/privacy-and-surveillance/nsa-continues-violate-americans-internet-privacy https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/privacy-and-surv...
  - thrower123 7y ago
    Statistically unlikely, yes. Grand total, you are talking about a couple thousand people over half a century. China does worse in a month in Xinjiang. The excesses of western nations stand out like a sore asshole so badly because they are such exceptions to the general rule of law they experience.

Absolutely. But no more naughty than USA or Israel, as far as I can tell.

by eof 7y ago

Absolutely. But no more naughty than USA or Israel, as far as I can tell.

Hmm, I don’t want to get into a state wickedness bidding war, but the US/Israel are democracies where you are unlikely to be eg locked up without a fair trial. Contrast with the fate of the Uighurs. In foreign policy it’s more balanced (supporting Syria vs Saudi Arabia) but even there, Russia is clearly trying to subvert foreign democracies. China is (perhaps reasonably) pushing for more power in Asia. And while the US support for human rights is patchy, China’s is non-existent. Then there’s the Palestinians... (sigh)

strictfp 7y ago
Story time. A close friend of mine was held in custody in the US based on false accusations by a police officer. The police officer later admitted the false accusations to the judge, that he just wanted to "scare him a bit". The judge nodded, proceeded to aquit him of all offenses exept the speeding ticket which he deserved, and off he went.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- Krasnol 7y ago
  Yeah that's local corruption and still far away from what the Uigurs have to go through which is state policy.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
dbrgn 7y ago
And you think the US isn't trying to subvert foreign democracies?
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
simiones 7y ago
Which democracies is Russia trying to subvert in ways the US isn't? You could argue that Russia is supporting nationalist movements in most of Europe, but there are very similar efforts from the US. For example, in my own country, Romania, US religious groups stoked local religious groups to initiate a referendum to change of our constitution to ban gay marriage (they actually made it through all the steps and the referendum was held, but so few people showed up to vote that it fell through). Would this count? It was done through false news and propaganda (and probably some minor corruption, but that's just par for the course), but otherwise through legal means - same as all modern Russian influence in Europe that I've heard of. Let's not forget that the US has explicitly assassinated its own citizens for 'suspicion of terrorism' as well, though they're at least not assassinating their own citizens on their own territory, and not in the kind of huge numbers that Russia and China are.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
lm28469 7y ago
> US/Israel are democracies where you are unlikely to be eg locked up without a fair trial. MKULTRA, guantanamo, Stuxnet, PRISM and other 3 letters agency abuses [0][1], &c. and that's only the stuff we know about. > Then there’s the Palestinians... (sigh) See: https://www.dw.com/en/trumps-golan-recognition-a-dangerous-precedent/a-48037886 https://www.dw.com/en/trumps-golan-recognition-a-dangerous-p... [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance_disclosures_(2013–present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_surveillance_disclosure... [1] https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/privacy-and-surveillance/nsa-continues-violate-americans-internet-privacy https://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/privacy-and-surv...
- thrower123 7y ago
  Statistically unlikely, yes. Grand total, you are talking about a couple thousand people over half a century. China does worse in a month in Xinjiang. The excesses of western nations stand out like a sore asshole so badly because they are such exceptions to the general rule of law they experience.