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> To see a huge gigantic company of this size and reputation pursue this kind of mistake that has real impact on paying customers is astounding. It's a conscio

by devy 7y ago

> To see a huge gigantic company of this size and reputation pursue this kind of mistake that has real impact on paying customers is astounding. It's a conscious decision, probably due to cost/production volume concerns. Musk had pulled this kind of tricks before with lithium-ion batteries before (remember the early Tesla fires?), they were initially using consumer grade laptop batteries (with a highly energy density/weight ratio at the time but more prone to fire and explosion comparing to other manufacturer's automotive grade lithium-ion battery chemistry, granted Tesla might have improved.) And honestly, the cost of automotive thermal grade 2 certified central display for 17-inch TFT screen was probably (still is I suspect) cost-prohibitive for a low margin auto industry. What's really astounding to me is the "cabin overheat protection" feature. As the article pointed out, what this really is Tesla trying to prevent the non-automotive grade screen from failing, even though it's touting for protecting dogs and children at extremely hot summer days. It regulates the cabin temperature at +40C, but that's the temperature children's organ will start failing.

deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
jacobush 7y ago
Wow, that's horrible. Very dark.
londons_explore 7y ago
A child can survive longer than an adult at high temperatures, as long as they have access to water. 40C is very survivable. Lots of places on earth regularly hit 40C
- emptyfile 7y ago
  40C in a closed car with no ventilation.
  - pwagland 7y ago
    Except that the whole thing is bunk… "overheat protection" is, by definition, ventilation. It is also not designed to protect children or animals, but simply to keep the car cooler. "Dog mode" keeps the car at the temperature set by user, typically 20-25C
- cjrp 7y ago
  Doesn't it depend on the age of the child? Presumably a baby can't manage their internal temperature as effectively as an adult.
  - londons_explore 7y ago
    > Presumably a baby can't manage their internal temperature as effectively as an adult. For overheating, I think they can. A much higher surface area to volume ratio means even a small amount of sweating can give a lot of cooling.
privateSFacct 7y ago
I used to work summers in the Caribbean - organs failing at 104 is a pretty much total lie
- Cyph0n 7y ago
  Agreed. I lived in the UAE where summers are consistently 40C+. No organs failures as far as I can remember.
  - devy 7y ago
    The author specifically gave the external source[1] about this claim and it provides context. The title reads: Prevent Child Deaths in Hot Cars. It's advisory for child death in hot cars. Your anecdotal doesn't invalidate any of the health advisories in the link below. [1]: https://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/on-the-go/Pages/Prevent-Child-Deaths-in-Hot-Cars.aspx https://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/on...
    - Cyph0n 7y ago
      Cool, thanks for clarifying!
- Aromasin 7y ago
  >organs failing at 104 is a pretty much total lie Actually it is a very well recorded phenomenon. Just because you and the people you work with may have adapted well does not mean that it is universal by any means. People die in heat waves regularly; normally diabetics with peripheral neuropathy who can't sweat enough to drop their internal temperature or people with heart problems who can't take the additional stress of lowering their temperature. [1] [2] [4] "Heat related mortality is similar in hot and cold parts of western Europe and in hot and cold parts of the United States. This implies that the populations of hot regions have adjusted by physiological or other means to their hotter summers."[3] Also, the metric for organs failing at 104 is entirely correct, just not with regards to external body temperature. Your organs will undoubtedly fail if your internal temperature is 104F/40C. I've had sepsis with a temperature of 40.9C and I would have died if it wasn't for quick treatment from the doctors. Quick anecdote; if you're ever in the situation where your body temperature starts to get that high, scream and shout until you get an actual doctor on hand - I had nurses who had no idea of the severity of my condition and would have left me to die through shear negligence. I was lucky enough that the surgeon for my leg injury decided to check how it was healing, and rushed to call in a team of 4 or 5 doctors to stabilise me as I went into shock from hyperthermia. Spent the next 24 hours covered with cold towels and ice swapped out regularly by some very apologetic nurses. [1] https://emj.bmj.com/content/22/3/185 https://emj.bmj.com/content/22/3/185 [2] https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/07/130716-heat-wave-dehydration-stroke-summer-sweat/ https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/07/130716-heat... [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC192832/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC192832/ [4] https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320226.php https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320226.php
mgw 7y ago
> What's really astounding to me is the "cabin overheat protection" feature. As the article pointed out, what this really is Tesla trying to prevent the non-automotive grade screen from failing, even though it's touting for protecting dogs and children at extremely hot summer days. It regulates the cabin temperature at +40C, but that's the temperature children's organ will start failing. While the article seems well researched and very informative otherwise, 40C is the internal body temperature at which a child's organs will start failing. The internal air temperature of the car (regulated to 40C in this case) will of course have an effect on the passenger but does not necessarily lead to them reaching a body temperature equivalent to the ambient air because the body possesses cooling mechanisms. 40C still seems problematic for children though. Quoting https://www.uptodate.com/contents/heat-stroke-in-children https://www.uptodate.com/contents/heat-stroke-in-children: > Evaporation is the principal mechanism of heat loss in a hot environment, but this becomes ineffective above a relative humidity of 75 percent. The other major methods of heat dissipation; radiation (emission of infrared electromagnetic energy), conduction (direct transfer of heat to an adjacent, cooler object), and convection (direct transfer of heat to convective air currents); cannot efficiently transfer heat when environmental temperature exceeds skin temperature (typically 35°C or 95°F).
jackpeterfletch 7y ago
'Cabin Overheat Protection' does kind of make me feel like they've lost sight of what EVs and the Tesla are all about. The planet is warming up because we cant provide enough clean energy to feed demand. I can't help but feel that having everyone's car air-condition themselves when not in use, so that you have a screen large enough to play space invaders, electric or not, is really bringing us closer to solving that.

by devy 7y ago

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

jacobush 7y ago

Wow, that's horrible. Very dark.

londons_explore 7y ago

A child can survive longer than an adult at high temperatures, as long as they have access to water. 40C is very survivable. Lots of places on earth regularly hit 40C

emptyfile 7y ago
40C in a closed car with no ventilation.
- pwagland 7y ago
  Except that the whole thing is bunk… "overheat protection" is, by definition, ventilation. It is also not designed to protect children or animals, but simply to keep the car cooler. "Dog mode" keeps the car at the temperature set by user, typically 20-25C
cjrp 7y ago
Doesn't it depend on the age of the child? Presumably a baby can't manage their internal temperature as effectively as an adult.
- londons_explore 7y ago
  > Presumably a baby can't manage their internal temperature as effectively as an adult. For overheating, I think they can. A much higher surface area to volume ratio means even a small amount of sweating can give a lot of cooling.

privateSFacct 7y ago

I used to work summers in the Caribbean - organs failing at 104 is a pretty much total lie

Cyph0n 7y ago
Agreed. I lived in the UAE where summers are consistently 40C+. No organs failures as far as I can remember.
- devy 7y ago
  The author specifically gave the external source[1] about this claim and it provides context. The title reads: Prevent Child Deaths in Hot Cars. It's advisory for child death in hot cars. Your anecdotal doesn't invalidate any of the health advisories in the link below. [1]: https://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/on-the-go/Pages/Prevent-Child-Deaths-in-Hot-Cars.aspx https://www.healthychildren.org/English/safety-prevention/on...
  - Cyph0n 7y ago
    Cool, thanks for clarifying!
Aromasin 7y ago
>organs failing at 104 is a pretty much total lie Actually it is a very well recorded phenomenon. Just because you and the people you work with may have adapted well does not mean that it is universal by any means. People die in heat waves regularly; normally diabetics with peripheral neuropathy who can't sweat enough to drop their internal temperature or people with heart problems who can't take the additional stress of lowering their temperature. [1] [2] [4] "Heat related mortality is similar in hot and cold parts of western Europe and in hot and cold parts of the United States. This implies that the populations of hot regions have adjusted by physiological or other means to their hotter summers."[3] Also, the metric for organs failing at 104 is entirely correct, just not with regards to external body temperature. Your organs will undoubtedly fail if your internal temperature is 104F/40C. I've had sepsis with a temperature of 40.9C and I would have died if it wasn't for quick treatment from the doctors. Quick anecdote; if you're ever in the situation where your body temperature starts to get that high, scream and shout until you get an actual doctor on hand - I had nurses who had no idea of the severity of my condition and would have left me to die through shear negligence. I was lucky enough that the surgeon for my leg injury decided to check how it was healing, and rushed to call in a team of 4 or 5 doctors to stabilise me as I went into shock from hyperthermia. Spent the next 24 hours covered with cold towels and ice swapped out regularly by some very apologetic nurses. [1] https://emj.bmj.com/content/22/3/185 https://emj.bmj.com/content/22/3/185 [2] https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/07/130716-heat-wave-dehydration-stroke-summer-sweat/ https://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/07/130716-heat... [3] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC192832/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC192832/ [4] https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320226.php https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/320226.php

mgw 7y ago

> What's really astounding to me is the "cabin overheat protection" feature. As the article pointed out, what this really is Tesla trying to prevent the non-automotive grade screen from failing, even though it's touting for protecting dogs and children at extremely hot summer days. It regulates the cabin temperature at +40C, but that's the temperature children's organ will start failing. While the article seems well researched and very informative otherwise, 40C is the internal body temperature at which a child's organs will start failing. The internal air temperature of the car (regulated to 40C in this case) will of course have an effect on the passenger but does not necessarily lead to them reaching a body temperature equivalent to the ambient air because the body possesses cooling mechanisms. 40C still seems problematic for children though. Quoting https://www.uptodate.com/contents/heat-stroke-in-children https://www.uptodate.com/contents/heat-stroke-in-children: > Evaporation is the principal mechanism of heat loss in a hot environment, but this becomes ineffective above a relative humidity of 75 percent. The other major methods of heat dissipation; radiation (emission of infrared electromagnetic energy), conduction (direct transfer of heat to an adjacent, cooler object), and convection (direct transfer of heat to convective air currents); cannot efficiently transfer heat when environmental temperature exceeds skin temperature (typically 35°C or 95°F).

jackpeterfletch 7y ago

'Cabin Overheat Protection' does kind of make me feel like they've lost sight of what EVs and the Tesla are all about. The planet is warming up because we cant provide enough clean energy to feed demand. I can't help but feel that having everyone's car air-condition themselves when not in use, so that you have a screen large enough to play space invaders, electric or not, is really bringing us closer to solving that.