5 ms·

Then why call it "gratitude" instead of calling it what it is, to wit: appreciation? Obviously the proponents of gratitude meant something more than appreciatio

by sridca 7y ago

Then why call it "gratitude" instead of calling it what it is, to wit: appreciation? Obviously the proponents of gratitude meant something more than appreciation.

YjSe2GMQ 7y ago
I'm doing this class and I don't think there's any essential difference between gratitude and appreciation. Call it however you want, those are just names for particular practices anyhow.
- sridca 7y ago
  What is a "non-essential" difference, according to you, between gratitude (defined as: "the quality of being thankful; readiness to show appreciation for and to return kindness.") and appreciation (defined as: "recognition and enjoyment of the good qualities of someone or something.")?
  - saghm 7y ago
    The "gratitude" definition you give seems to be a special case of "appreciation"; I honestly don't see how appreciating and returning kindness could be objectionable.
    - sridca 7y ago
      Do a bit of reading by the proponents of gratitude and you'll see that it is not the same as appreciation. For example, here's a quote from a link someone else posted on this thread: People feel and express gratitude in multiple ways. They can apply it to the past (retrieving positive memories and being thankful for elements of childhood or past blessings), the present (not taking good fortune for granted as it comes), and the future (maintaining a hopeful and optimistic attitude). Would you use "appreciation" to describe that? Also here are the ways to cultivate gratitude per that same link: Write a thank-you note. Thank someone mentally. Keep a gratitude journal. Count your blessings. Pray. Meditate. Is that how you'd describe "appreciation"? The spiritualists, and their secular friends, choose "gratitude" for a reason--they recommend a specific emotional state. Personally in my mind appreciation is a matter of fact straightforward activity of ongoing enjoyment (of activities, things, events, people, etc.). Gratitude is not even close to that as illustrated above ... one I find little to no value in exemplifying (as there are superior ways of experiencing life such as appreciating being alive having a cup of coffee on a sunny terrace!). > I honestly don't see how appreciating and returning kindness could be objectionable Where did I write that they are objectionable? I said that gratitude is ineffective when you could be going straight to the root cause of resentment and dislodging it from your life.
      - saghm 7y ago
        > Write a thank-you note. > Thank someone mentally. > Keep a gratitude journal. > Count your blessings. > Pray. > Meditate. I don't really see the first two things as being specifically spiritual, and I don't see it as much of a stretch to see that they can help with mental well-being. The third one is somewhat recursive, so I obviously can't argue that it isn't specific to gratitude. The next two definitely feel spiritual, but I feel like they could pretty easily be expressed with "appreciation" and still be spiritual, e.g. "appreciate your blessings" or "appreciate the presence of god". I'll be honest and say that from my naive understanding of meditation, I don't exactly know how it falls into the "gratitude" bucket. If I were asked to describe what "meditation" is in the spiritual sense, I definitely would have been more like to use the word "appreciation" than "gratitude", e.g. "appreciate one's place in the universe", so I don't really know enough to understand the distinction here. Overall, to me, this list seems to be a mix of things that are overtly or mostly spiritual and things that don't seem particularly spiritual to me. Maybe it's just my lack of knowledge about this sort of topic, but I'm still not seeing any huge distinction between the two terms based off of those quotes. I definitely agree that from them, the course definitely seems to have a spiritual bent, but the word "gratitude" at least to me doesn't have anything to do with it. > Where did I write that they are objectionable? Fair enough; I may have been inferring a tone that wasn't present. It just strikes me as a bit odd that you feel so strongly about the differences between gratitude and appreciation when they don't seem that different to me (and from reading other comments, others seem to share this confusion).
        sridca 7y ago
        > I may have been inferring a tone that wasn't present. That's most likely the case. From my experience with talking to people on this topic I've noticed that anytime I point out the shortcomings of meditation and the like, people--no matter how intelligent they are--tend to get very offended and then proceed to respond to me in anger without even realizing that they are feeling anything but good. (The very fact that this otherwise reasonable thread has been flagged to death is a testament to that). > I'll be honest and say that from my naive understanding of meditation [...] If you do your research beyond the watering down of eastern spirituality to fit the western secular mind (which is not, actually, secular) then you may very well see that there is in fact no connection whatsoever between gratitude (i.e., writing thank-you notes, thanking someone mentally, keeping a gratitude journal, counting on one's blessings, praying, meditation) and enjoying and appreciating this moment of being alive while say drinking a delicious cup of coffee on a sunny terrace, as the former is designed specifically to attain a specific emotional state to counter, and keep at bay, the feelings like resentment.
skilled 7y ago
Have you had a bad experience with spirituality or something? You sound hella mad my friend and it's not a good look. People invested their time and effort in this course. The least you can do is be grateful that there are such people on the planet who care about the wellbeing of others.
- shittyadmin 7y ago
  Who hasn't had a bad experience with spirituality? This is the same kind of thing that's used to promote anti-vax campaigns and scam people out of thousands of dollars for fake medical treatments.
  - saghm 7y ago
    I think a lot of people have had both positive and negative experiences with spirituality (which I want to emphasize is not synonymous with "religion", which I think provokes stronger emotions for a lot of people). Similarly, I've had both good and bad experiences with public transportation, which I think is also fairly common. There are plenty of things that I've had bad experiences with that I still find useful due to other experiences that were better.
- sridca 7y ago
  Why not just intelligently respond to my questions/ comments instead of projecting your feelings ("hella mad") onto me? Did what I write offend any of your sensibilities?
  - ohyeshedid 7y ago
    You inserted the concept of spirituality in an attempt to take some kind of stance; that was never present. You fabricated that, then complained when you were downvoted for being obtuse, and you keep complaining about lack of intelligent discourse while ignorantly hammering at a point that doesn't exist here.
    - sridca 7y ago
harimau777 7y ago
My understanding is that gratitude is the standard term for that in the context of mindfulness.
deleted 7y ago
[deleted]
hndamien 7y ago
Gratitude and appreciation are different things. I can appreciate an piece of art, it doesn't mean that I am thankful/ grateful for it. There are many things you can appreciate without being grateful - infact, this is inherently the issue that gratitude is addressing, which stems from ego, self-centeredness, thoughtlessness. An easy place to fall into.
- sridca 7y ago
  What are some examples of things you appreciate (without being grateful) that stem from ego, self-centeredness, thoughtlessness?
  - malloryerik 7y ago
    The word comes from the Latin appretiare, 'to price' or 'to appraise'. 'Only I can truly appreciate your suffering and your needs, and so only I can lead you.' How about that?
  - hndamien 7y ago
    Perhaps some forms of lust?
malloryerik 7y ago
'Gratitude' or 'thankfulness' sound like they'd induce more humility than 'appreciation'. To appreciate can mean to understand or recognize. Art appreciation doesn't quite mean gratitude towards art, as far as I can see. Consider, 'I am grateful for the grace of God' or 'I am grateful that fate has spared us'. Then try, 'I appreciate the grace of God' or 'I appreciate that fate has spared us'. Appreciate sounds almost haughty and egocentric in comparison. If I appreciate my food the focus can still be on me, maybe I can even relish how my oh-so sophisticated palate is able to extract wonders from the food, indeed how amazingly I'm able to appreciate the overall art of cuisine (or anything else). If I am 'grateful' for the food, such a stance seems difficult. It's hard or silly to think of oneself as excelling in gratitude. Of course it can be done (and is always annoying to witness) but it seems harder to keep up as it's more obviously self-contradicting than garden-variety egotism. So it seems that 'gratitude' suggests a more measured relationship between object and subject, and does a better job encouraging humility.
- sridca 7y ago
  Good response, I agree. Except of course for the connecting of appreciation and egocentrism. I can appreciate eating a delicious croissant, for example, savouring its buttery flavours as experienced on the tongue without egotistically thinking of "my" oh-so sophisticated palate. Moreover the word "appreciation" does not necessarily imply selfish thinking of any such sort. Of course gratitude is not taught in such "mundane" contexts of sensately enjoying eating a croissant. It is always about some "higher" things like God or your childhood hurt memories or "food" (as nourishment rather than sensory pleasure). And humility is a core part of gratitude. Yet humility exists to counter pride (one can't help but be proud of being humble.). Humility and pride are two sides of the same coin, and appreciation has got nothing necessarily to do with either of them.

by sridca 7y ago

Then why call it "gratitude" instead of calling it what it is, to wit: appreciation? Obviously the proponents of gratitude meant something more than appreciation.

YjSe2GMQ 7y ago

I'm doing this class and I don't think there's any essential difference between gratitude and appreciation. Call it however you want, those are just names for particular practices anyhow.

sridca 7y ago
What is a "non-essential" difference, according to you, between gratitude (defined as: "the quality of being thankful; readiness to show appreciation for and to return kindness.") and appreciation (defined as: "recognition and enjoyment of the good qualities of someone or something.")?
- saghm 7y ago
  The "gratitude" definition you give seems to be a special case of "appreciation"; I honestly don't see how appreciating and returning kindness could be objectionable.
  - sridca 7y ago
    Do a bit of reading by the proponents of gratitude and you'll see that it is not the same as appreciation. For example, here's a quote from a link someone else posted on this thread: People feel and express gratitude in multiple ways. They can apply it to the past (retrieving positive memories and being thankful for elements of childhood or past blessings), the present (not taking good fortune for granted as it comes), and the future (maintaining a hopeful and optimistic attitude). Would you use "appreciation" to describe that? Also here are the ways to cultivate gratitude per that same link: Write a thank-you note. Thank someone mentally. Keep a gratitude journal. Count your blessings. Pray. Meditate. Is that how you'd describe "appreciation"? The spiritualists, and their secular friends, choose "gratitude" for a reason--they recommend a specific emotional state. Personally in my mind appreciation is a matter of fact straightforward activity of ongoing enjoyment (of activities, things, events, people, etc.). Gratitude is not even close to that as illustrated above ... one I find little to no value in exemplifying (as there are superior ways of experiencing life such as appreciating being alive having a cup of coffee on a sunny terrace!). > I honestly don't see how appreciating and returning kindness could be objectionable Where did I write that they are objectionable? I said that gratitude is ineffective when you could be going straight to the root cause of resentment and dislodging it from your life.
    - saghm 7y ago
      > Write a thank-you note. > Thank someone mentally. > Keep a gratitude journal. > Count your blessings. > Pray. > Meditate. I don't really see the first two things as being specifically spiritual, and I don't see it as much of a stretch to see that they can help with mental well-being. The third one is somewhat recursive, so I obviously can't argue that it isn't specific to gratitude. The next two definitely feel spiritual, but I feel like they could pretty easily be expressed with "appreciation" and still be spiritual, e.g. "appreciate your blessings" or "appreciate the presence of god". I'll be honest and say that from my naive understanding of meditation, I don't exactly know how it falls into the "gratitude" bucket. If I were asked to describe what "meditation" is in the spiritual sense, I definitely would have been more like to use the word "appreciation" than "gratitude", e.g. "appreciate one's place in the universe", so I don't really know enough to understand the distinction here. Overall, to me, this list seems to be a mix of things that are overtly or mostly spiritual and things that don't seem particularly spiritual to me. Maybe it's just my lack of knowledge about this sort of topic, but I'm still not seeing any huge distinction between the two terms based off of those quotes. I definitely agree that from them, the course definitely seems to have a spiritual bent, but the word "gratitude" at least to me doesn't have anything to do with it. > Where did I write that they are objectionable? Fair enough; I may have been inferring a tone that wasn't present. It just strikes me as a bit odd that you feel so strongly about the differences between gratitude and appreciation when they don't seem that different to me (and from reading other comments, others seem to share this confusion).
      - sridca 7y ago
        > I may have been inferring a tone that wasn't present. That's most likely the case. From my experience with talking to people on this topic I've noticed that anytime I point out the shortcomings of meditation and the like, people--no matter how intelligent they are--tend to get very offended and then proceed to respond to me in anger without even realizing that they are feeling anything but good. (The very fact that this otherwise reasonable thread has been flagged to death is a testament to that). > I'll be honest and say that from my naive understanding of meditation [...] If you do your research beyond the watering down of eastern spirituality to fit the western secular mind (which is not, actually, secular) then you may very well see that there is in fact no connection whatsoever between gratitude (i.e., writing thank-you notes, thanking someone mentally, keeping a gratitude journal, counting on one's blessings, praying, meditation) and enjoying and appreciating this moment of being alive while say drinking a delicious cup of coffee on a sunny terrace, as the former is designed specifically to attain a specific emotional state to counter, and keep at bay, the feelings like resentment.

skilled 7y ago

Have you had a bad experience with spirituality or something? You sound hella mad my friend and it's not a good look. People invested their time and effort in this course. The least you can do is be grateful that there are such people on the planet who care about the wellbeing of others.

shittyadmin 7y ago
Who hasn't had a bad experience with spirituality? This is the same kind of thing that's used to promote anti-vax campaigns and scam people out of thousands of dollars for fake medical treatments.
- saghm 7y ago
  I think a lot of people have had both positive and negative experiences with spirituality (which I want to emphasize is not synonymous with "religion", which I think provokes stronger emotions for a lot of people). Similarly, I've had both good and bad experiences with public transportation, which I think is also fairly common. There are plenty of things that I've had bad experiences with that I still find useful due to other experiences that were better.
sridca 7y ago
Why not just intelligently respond to my questions/ comments instead of projecting your feelings ("hella mad") onto me? Did what I write offend any of your sensibilities?
- ohyeshedid 7y ago
  You inserted the concept of spirituality in an attempt to take some kind of stance; that was never present. You fabricated that, then complained when you were downvoted for being obtuse, and you keep complaining about lack of intelligent discourse while ignorantly hammering at a point that doesn't exist here.
  - sridca 7y ago

harimau777 7y ago

My understanding is that gratitude is the standard term for that in the context of mindfulness.

deleted 7y ago

[deleted]

hndamien 7y ago

Gratitude and appreciation are different things. I can appreciate an piece of art, it doesn't mean that I am thankful/ grateful for it. There are many things you can appreciate without being grateful - infact, this is inherently the issue that gratitude is addressing, which stems from ego, self-centeredness, thoughtlessness. An easy place to fall into.

sridca 7y ago
What are some examples of things you appreciate (without being grateful) that stem from ego, self-centeredness, thoughtlessness?
- malloryerik 7y ago
  The word comes from the Latin appretiare, 'to price' or 'to appraise'. 'Only I can truly appreciate your suffering and your needs, and so only I can lead you.' How about that?
- hndamien 7y ago
  Perhaps some forms of lust?

malloryerik 7y ago

'Gratitude' or 'thankfulness' sound like they'd induce more humility than 'appreciation'. To appreciate can mean to understand or recognize. Art appreciation doesn't quite mean gratitude towards art, as far as I can see. Consider, 'I am grateful for the grace of God' or 'I am grateful that fate has spared us'. Then try, 'I appreciate the grace of God' or 'I appreciate that fate has spared us'. Appreciate sounds almost haughty and egocentric in comparison. If I appreciate my food the focus can still be on me, maybe I can even relish how my oh-so sophisticated palate is able to extract wonders from the food, indeed how amazingly I'm able to appreciate the overall art of cuisine (or anything else). If I am 'grateful' for the food, such a stance seems difficult. It's hard or silly to think of oneself as excelling in gratitude. Of course it can be done (and is always annoying to witness) but it seems harder to keep up as it's more obviously self-contradicting than garden-variety egotism. So it seems that 'gratitude' suggests a more measured relationship between object and subject, and does a better job encouraging humility.

sridca 7y ago
Good response, I agree. Except of course for the connecting of appreciation and egocentrism. I can appreciate eating a delicious croissant, for example, savouring its buttery flavours as experienced on the tongue without egotistically thinking of "my" oh-so sophisticated palate. Moreover the word "appreciation" does not necessarily imply selfish thinking of any such sort. Of course gratitude is not taught in such "mundane" contexts of sensately enjoying eating a croissant. It is always about some "higher" things like God or your childhood hurt memories or "food" (as nourishment rather than sensory pleasure). And humility is a core part of gratitude. Yet humility exists to counter pride (one can't help but be proud of being humble.). Humility and pride are two sides of the same coin, and appreciation has got nothing necessarily to do with either of them.