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>Isn't the big problem that you have no idea what it's doing to your system? As opposed to what exactly? Any other alternative, e.g. separate shell scripts, "n

>Isn't the big problem that you have no idea what it's doing to your system? As opposed to what exactly? Any other alternative, e.g. separate shell scripts, "npm run" scripts in package.json, running a Docker image, hell even cmake or other make-like tools - does stuff you don't know about without reading the files either.

aequitas 7y ago
With Docker at least everything is contained in the container. Which makes isolating and resetting environments a breeze. Something I worry about often is contaminating my system's 'state'. Which always leads to broken builds or incomplete build systems because a missing dependency is not spotted on your system because it was installed by some other tool some other time. I tend to write my Makefiles to create as much of a local dev environment as possible for every project. Using Python virtualenv/Pipenv/Poetry, Ruby vendored dirs, custom Gopath per project (using direnv), etc. Most tools support some sort of isolation/localisation, but it's often just not on by default.
- jrumbut 7y ago
  I wish more tools did this, I almost always want a local, self-contained environment for everything. The few times I don't actively want I don't see much pain in having one. A couple minutes setup time, maybe? I have seriously considered hiring someone to audit and prune all the random little libraries and tools I've installed over the years for that one-off time I had to process a weird file format or wanted to try something from HN.
  - alephu5 7y ago
    Maybe you'd like NixOS?
    - jrumbut 7y ago
      I'm fascinated by NixOS and am following it, just haven't had a lot of time to dive in yet. It does sound like the right idea. This is hypocritical as someone who doesn't use it but I hope more people use it.
  - pknopf 7y ago
    To keep my system clean, I use Darch. https://godarch.com/ https://godarch.com/ Every boot is a fresh install. Any one-off only becomes persisted unless I add it to my recipes. https://github.com/pauldotknopf/darch-recipes https://github.com/pauldotknopf/darch-recipes
logicallee 7y ago
(I was heavily downvoted). What I was thinking is: as opposed to just running your built-in package manager yourself, to upgrade your system to the latest version of all the packages it might require.
- wtetzner 7y ago
  Makefiles are used for more than package management. In fact, it doesn't seem very common to use them for package management. Maybe I'm missing something?
  - PyroLagus 7y ago
    I think they were talking about projects that tell you to run `make install`, which I agree is less than ideal.

aequitas 7y ago

With Docker at least everything is contained in the container. Which makes isolating and resetting environments a breeze. Something I worry about often is contaminating my system's 'state'. Which always leads to broken builds or incomplete build systems because a missing dependency is not spotted on your system because it was installed by some other tool some other time. I tend to write my Makefiles to create as much of a local dev environment as possible for every project. Using Python virtualenv/Pipenv/Poetry, Ruby vendored dirs, custom Gopath per project (using direnv), etc. Most tools support some sort of isolation/localisation, but it's often just not on by default.

jrumbut 7y ago
I wish more tools did this, I almost always want a local, self-contained environment for everything. The few times I don't actively want I don't see much pain in having one. A couple minutes setup time, maybe? I have seriously considered hiring someone to audit and prune all the random little libraries and tools I've installed over the years for that one-off time I had to process a weird file format or wanted to try something from HN.
- alephu5 7y ago
  Maybe you'd like NixOS?
  - jrumbut 7y ago
    I'm fascinated by NixOS and am following it, just haven't had a lot of time to dive in yet. It does sound like the right idea. This is hypocritical as someone who doesn't use it but I hope more people use it.
- pknopf 7y ago
  To keep my system clean, I use Darch. https://godarch.com/ https://godarch.com/ Every boot is a fresh install. Any one-off only becomes persisted unless I add it to my recipes. https://github.com/pauldotknopf/darch-recipes https://github.com/pauldotknopf/darch-recipes

logicallee 7y ago

(I was heavily downvoted). What I was thinking is: as opposed to just running your built-in package manager yourself, to upgrade your system to the latest version of all the packages it might require.

wtetzner 7y ago
Makefiles are used for more than package management. In fact, it doesn't seem very common to use them for package management. Maybe I'm missing something?
- PyroLagus 7y ago
  I think they were talking about projects that tell you to run `make install`, which I agree is less than ideal.