4 ms·

I see a fair number of people blame the anti-vaxxers for the current outbreak, but is that really the case? It could also be due to immigration or other source

by yters 7y ago

I see a fair number of people blame the anti-vaxxers for the current outbreak, but is that really the case? It could also be due to immigration or other sources of foreign contact, but I don't see anyone considering that angle.

yellowapple 7y ago
It's probably a variety of factors, but people willingly putting themselves and others in danger because of entirely unfounded (and in fact repeatedly debunked) fears around the "dangers" of vaccines certainly ain't helping.
- yters 7y ago
  True, but they shouldn't be blamed for the outbreak if they are not responsible. Assuming this outbreak is a serious matter and we need to identify the true reason, it doesn't help to scapegoat one party that may not be responsible.
  - 3JPLW 7y ago
    And neither should immigrants be blithely blamed.
    - yters 7y ago
      Indeed! No one should be blithely blamed :)
iron0013 7y ago
Wow you're right, I can't believe no one ever thought to look at who the measles victims are or where they came from. We need to get you on the phone to the CDC right away so that you can tell them all about your novel and important ideas!
- yters 7y ago
  An interesting study would be to take the population of unvaccinated and count how many are that way due to antivax ideology and how many due to some other cause. Furthermore, it'd be interesting to examine the measles cases and see what population they come from. I see an article castigate the antivaxxers and then say most measles occur among unvaccinated populations. Is the article saying the two populations are the same? No solid link is offered, yet the two groups are mentioned together leading a non-careful reader to conclude the antivaxxers are to blame.
  - 3JPLW 7y ago
    It is, as with many things, a mix of all things. But the decrease in vaccination rates is _definitely_ a huge contributing factor in many of the outbreaks. See, e.g., https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6122668/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6122668/
NeedMoreTea 7y ago
There was, and is, always the chance of encountering someone unvaccinated, or who can't be for some reason. Particularly those travelling - for whatever reason. Transplants and chemo can rob your immune system of protection. That's why you need enough vaccinations in the general population to achieve herd immunity that gives indirect protection to those exceptions too. A case cannot spread reliably or rapidly enough to become a significant outbreak. The amount you need to vaccinate to achieve it varies depending on disease - measles needs quite a high percentage vaccinated, others less.
mfatica 7y ago
It's a difficult discussion to have because any mention of any sort of possible negative impact of migration is met with shouts of racism from the liberal left.
- atomi 7y ago
  You can return to Europe where your ancestors are presumably from and return America back to the Native Americans. Stopping millions of people from travelling is about as ludicrous as that. Working on increasing vaccination rates is certainly a lot more reasonable.
  - yters 7y ago
    Vaccination doesn't solve the problem of infected people bringing in measles from outside the country.
    - atomi 7y ago
      So you incentivize legal entry through points of entry where people can be screened.
    - belltaco 7y ago
      If more are vaccinated then fewer will get and spread the disease.
    - fwip 7y ago
      Sure it does. If you're vaccinated, it's not a problem.
  - mfatica 7y ago
    When did I say I want to stop millions of people from "traveling"? First off, you can't have a country without borders. Secondly, you can have migration but in a modern world you can't just let people flow through. That's why we had Ellis Island, people could be vetted for things such as deadly diseases and possibly be vaccinated before being let into the country.

by yters 7y ago

yellowapple 7y ago

It's probably a variety of factors, but people willingly putting themselves and others in danger because of entirely unfounded (and in fact repeatedly debunked) fears around the "dangers" of vaccines certainly ain't helping.

yters 7y ago
True, but they shouldn't be blamed for the outbreak if they are not responsible. Assuming this outbreak is a serious matter and we need to identify the true reason, it doesn't help to scapegoat one party that may not be responsible.
- 3JPLW 7y ago
  And neither should immigrants be blithely blamed.
  - yters 7y ago
    Indeed! No one should be blithely blamed :)

iron0013 7y ago

Wow you're right, I can't believe no one ever thought to look at who the measles victims are or where they came from. We need to get you on the phone to the CDC right away so that you can tell them all about your novel and important ideas!

yters 7y ago
An interesting study would be to take the population of unvaccinated and count how many are that way due to antivax ideology and how many due to some other cause. Furthermore, it'd be interesting to examine the measles cases and see what population they come from. I see an article castigate the antivaxxers and then say most measles occur among unvaccinated populations. Is the article saying the two populations are the same? No solid link is offered, yet the two groups are mentioned together leading a non-careful reader to conclude the antivaxxers are to blame.
- 3JPLW 7y ago
  It is, as with many things, a mix of all things. But the decrease in vaccination rates is _definitely_ a huge contributing factor in many of the outbreaks. See, e.g., https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6122668/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6122668/

NeedMoreTea 7y ago

There was, and is, always the chance of encountering someone unvaccinated, or who can't be for some reason. Particularly those travelling - for whatever reason. Transplants and chemo can rob your immune system of protection. That's why you need enough vaccinations in the general population to achieve herd immunity that gives indirect protection to those exceptions too. A case cannot spread reliably or rapidly enough to become a significant outbreak. The amount you need to vaccinate to achieve it varies depending on disease - measles needs quite a high percentage vaccinated, others less.

mfatica 7y ago

It's a difficult discussion to have because any mention of any sort of possible negative impact of migration is met with shouts of racism from the liberal left.

atomi 7y ago
You can return to Europe where your ancestors are presumably from and return America back to the Native Americans. Stopping millions of people from travelling is about as ludicrous as that. Working on increasing vaccination rates is certainly a lot more reasonable.
- yters 7y ago
  Vaccination doesn't solve the problem of infected people bringing in measles from outside the country.
  - atomi 7y ago
    So you incentivize legal entry through points of entry where people can be screened.
  - belltaco 7y ago
    If more are vaccinated then fewer will get and spread the disease.
  - fwip 7y ago
    Sure it does. If you're vaccinated, it's not a problem.
- mfatica 7y ago
  When did I say I want to stop millions of people from "traveling"? First off, you can't have a country without borders. Secondly, you can have migration but in a modern world you can't just let people flow through. That's why we had Ellis Island, people could be vetted for things such as deadly diseases and possibly be vaccinated before being let into the country.