6 ms·

Looking at these huge open spaces, I can't help but wonder what would happen after a single crack from oncoming debris. To avoid failing all at once a space hab

Looking at these huge open spaces, I can't help but wonder what would happen after a single crack from oncoming debris. To avoid failing all at once a space habitat should be divided into a bunch of smaller sub-compartments -- like the Titanic!

philwelch 7y ago
I think we’re probably a century away from actually finishing an O’Neill Cylinder. Bezos was taking a strikingly long-term view—-he was discussing the transition from a Kardashev I to Kardashev II civilization. We haven’t even reached Kardashev I yet.
gamegoblin 7y ago
Something that is sometimes pointed out about holes in spacecraft is that you don't lose air as fast as movies would imply. After all, the pressure difference between inside and outside is only 1 atmosphere. For instance, if a micro-meteor created a bullet-sized hole in the International Space Station, it would take 5-10 minutes for the air pressure to drop to 0.5 atmospheres. The kilometers-scale space colonies described here would take much longer. More than enough time for some drone to patch it, or for the inhabitants to get to "life boats" or some sort of shelter. I think the important part, then, would be to design the shell such that damage in one part can't spread too far.
- m4rtink 7y ago
  Exactly - these thing as designed by ONeil are HUGE - 30 km long on the "default" island three type. The solid walls would be meters thick, so the projectile would have to be very masive and/or very fast. And even then it would take a long time for pressure to reach dangerously low levels.
  - jandrese 7y ago
    I would expect lots of double and triple hulls. Especially on the glassy parts. Micrometorite smashes through a pane and it only opens up the compartmentalized space between the walls. It doesn't even depressurize anything because the secondary hull can be left unpressurized. These can then be repaired by technicians. A big emergency plug can be designed for large impacts, and as a last resort everybody can be trained in the use of emergency depressurization shelters. It's not without its risks, but at the same time it's not like the Earth is totally safe either. O'Neill colonies don't have to worry about natural disasters.
    - aeternus 7y ago
      There are already proposals for resin-filled self-healing polymers and epoxies. This would provide a high amount of resilience to small impacts.
      - m4rtink 7y ago
        I've seen a clever concept with special has filled baloons covered with a sticky resin layer from the inside. If there is a hull breach the baloons are automatically released, get sucked into the hole, break apart and seal it with the resin.
    - m4rtink 7y ago
      You cold definitely do a Whipple shield - basically a stand-of plate that vaporizws and fractures any projectiles, making it impact the next plate/hull on much bigger area but with much less localized force. This is basically the main defense ISS has agains micro meteorites and orbital debris.
- ForHackernews 7y ago
  On the ISS, they plugged a hole with a finger + tape: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2018/08/30/international-space-station-leaking-air-hit-space-debris/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2018/08/30/international...
  - jandrese 7y ago
    And that was a manufacturing defect, not a meteorite impact.
- JulianMorrison 7y ago
  Not very vulnerable to small random space debris, but a terrorist explosive would be a different matter. I can't see habitats like this existing except in the presence of an extremely peaceful and unstrained humanity-wide society.
stcredzero 7y ago
Looking at these huge open spaces, I can't help but wonder what would happen after a single crack from oncoming debris. Some more modern rotating habitat designs have a solid, stationary radiation shield with no breaks or holes. Light is instead provided by LEDs and solar panels. Many of these designs are modular, so have sub compartments.
- m4rtink 7y ago
  Well, you could definitely do an ONeil island 3 without the windows and youbwould get twice as much habitable area as a result. The Rama craft from the Encounter with Rama trilogy is basically that.
RivieraKid 7y ago
Or, incoming debris can be tracked using lidars and destroyed before it gets close.

philwelch 7y ago

I think we’re probably a century away from actually finishing an O’Neill Cylinder. Bezos was taking a strikingly long-term view—-he was discussing the transition from a Kardashev I to Kardashev II civilization. We haven’t even reached Kardashev I yet.

gamegoblin 7y ago

Something that is sometimes pointed out about holes in spacecraft is that you don't lose air as fast as movies would imply. After all, the pressure difference between inside and outside is only 1 atmosphere. For instance, if a micro-meteor created a bullet-sized hole in the International Space Station, it would take 5-10 minutes for the air pressure to drop to 0.5 atmospheres. The kilometers-scale space colonies described here would take much longer. More than enough time for some drone to patch it, or for the inhabitants to get to "life boats" or some sort of shelter. I think the important part, then, would be to design the shell such that damage in one part can't spread too far.

m4rtink 7y ago
Exactly - these thing as designed by ONeil are HUGE - 30 km long on the "default" island three type. The solid walls would be meters thick, so the projectile would have to be very masive and/or very fast. And even then it would take a long time for pressure to reach dangerously low levels.
- jandrese 7y ago
  I would expect lots of double and triple hulls. Especially on the glassy parts. Micrometorite smashes through a pane and it only opens up the compartmentalized space between the walls. It doesn't even depressurize anything because the secondary hull can be left unpressurized. These can then be repaired by technicians. A big emergency plug can be designed for large impacts, and as a last resort everybody can be trained in the use of emergency depressurization shelters. It's not without its risks, but at the same time it's not like the Earth is totally safe either. O'Neill colonies don't have to worry about natural disasters.
  - aeternus 7y ago
    There are already proposals for resin-filled self-healing polymers and epoxies. This would provide a high amount of resilience to small impacts.
    - m4rtink 7y ago
      I've seen a clever concept with special has filled baloons covered with a sticky resin layer from the inside. If there is a hull breach the baloons are automatically released, get sucked into the hole, break apart and seal it with the resin.
  - m4rtink 7y ago
    You cold definitely do a Whipple shield - basically a stand-of plate that vaporizws and fractures any projectiles, making it impact the next plate/hull on much bigger area but with much less localized force. This is basically the main defense ISS has agains micro meteorites and orbital debris.
ForHackernews 7y ago
On the ISS, they plugged a hole with a finger + tape: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2018/08/30/international-space-station-leaking-air-hit-space-debris/ https://www.telegraph.co.uk/science/2018/08/30/international...
- jandrese 7y ago
  And that was a manufacturing defect, not a meteorite impact.
JulianMorrison 7y ago
Not very vulnerable to small random space debris, but a terrorist explosive would be a different matter. I can't see habitats like this existing except in the presence of an extremely peaceful and unstrained humanity-wide society.

stcredzero 7y ago

Looking at these huge open spaces, I can't help but wonder what would happen after a single crack from oncoming debris. Some more modern rotating habitat designs have a solid, stationary radiation shield with no breaks or holes. Light is instead provided by LEDs and solar panels. Many of these designs are modular, so have sub compartments.

m4rtink 7y ago
Well, you could definitely do an ONeil island 3 without the windows and youbwould get twice as much habitable area as a result. The Rama craft from the Encounter with Rama trilogy is basically that.

RivieraKid 7y ago

Or, incoming debris can be tracked using lidars and destroyed before it gets close.