6 ms·

I’m the product manager for Argo and author of the blog. Happy to answer any questions!

by matsur 7y ago

devy 7y ago
Is Argo open sourced? If not, will it be open sourced in the future?
- eastdakota 7y ago
  Rustam can weigh in here, but I'm not exactly sure what with Argo we'd open source. Argo is a collection of a bunch of different technologies that we use to measure the performance across our transit, peering, and backbone connections. We then send different requests down different paths depending on each customer's particular needs and settings. While I'd imagine we will open source parts of the overall system, there's not really a stand-alone package that we could make available for anyone else to use. If there's a particular part of the overall Argo that would be helpful for you or others, let us know and we'll certainly consider it. Here's a list of things we've built at Cloudflare and open sourced already: https://cloudflare.github.io/ https://cloudflare.github.io/
- jbergstroem 7y ago
  Frequent user of argo/argo tunnel checking in. As far as I know, the network/lower level parts are not yet in the open, but the tunnel bits are: - Tunnel (cloudflared): https://github.com/cloudflare/cloudflared https://github.com/cloudflare/cloudflared - Argo as ingress (k8s): https://github.com/cloudflare/cloudflare-ingress-controller/ https://github.com/cloudflare/cloudflare-ingress-controller/
lziest 7y ago
You should consider to remake those graphs comparing the jitters. The non-backbone graph shows a majority of data points are below 0, which is impossible, so that means there are a small long tail at the high >20ms band, and you intentionally cropped them out. So when you said "oh the backbone graph is much better!". No it is not, it is very confusing actually.
- itsmatteomanf 7y ago
  I think that is showing the different from the average, so the variance in the jitter. It's not the actual latency which is not actually revealed with the Backbone in place.
ignoramous 7y ago
Is Argo in same category as Google's GlobalLoadBalancer and AWS' GlobalAccelerator? If not, what are the differences? Can Argo be enabled at network layer, say VPN, and for other protocols say VoIP and not just HTTP/S? Does Argo take inspiration from published research? If so, which ones? Thanks.
- matsur 7y ago
  There are similarities between Argo and the Google/Amazon products you mention (as well as Azure's Front Door). All are aiming to solve similar problems inherent to routing on the Internet. Re: enabling Argo at the network layer, watch this space :) I'd love to hear more about what you'd like to do such a product — email me! rustam@cloudflare.com
scanr 7y ago
Can I use Argo as a localtunnel alternative in development?
- samatcloudflare 7y ago
  Yes you can. You can run an Argo Tunnel without a Cloudflare account using the feature below. It's like ngrok, but with Argo Smart Routing. https://developers.cloudflare.com/argo-tunnel/trycloudflare/ https://developers.cloudflare.com/argo-tunnel/trycloudflare/
gist 7y ago
Off topic but your personal domain is lalkaka.com (your profile) and it does not have a web page. Now before HN jumps on me for this (I know you just use it for email) there is something about someone who works for cloudflare not only not using cloudflare (dns is google domains not cf) but not having the domain resolve to at least a simple 'hello' on a web page.
- mynameisvlad 7y ago
  Why does any of this matter, even in the slightest, when talking about "Argo and the Cloudflare Global Private Backbone" which is what this post is about. Not everyone needs to have a web page, nor does an employee of a company have to use their services (especially if they spun up their domain, website, whathaveyou before working for the company) for any sort of personal project.
  - gist 7y ago
    > Why does any of this matter, even in the slightest, when talking about "Argo and the Cloudflare Global Private Backbone" which is what this post is about. So I need to explain to someone who doesn't think that it matters that it matters to me? The fact that a post is about something else has never prevented people who take the time to comment on HN (an unpaid endeavor) from voicing an opinion on something related or ironic in some way. > nor does an employee of a company have to use their services (especially if they spun up their domain, website, whathaveyou before working for the company) for any sort of personal project. You are right it is not codified into some law. But as a general rule it makes more practical sense for an employee to use the employers products especially if they are posting a comment on a blog about another service that the employer offers where it's easy to see (such as I did) that they are not using the employers free primarily product that they are known for. Why should the employer not expect that their employees use their free product (which jgrahamc does use of course for his personal domain JGC.ORG ..).
    - jgrahamc 7y ago
      Rustam does whatever he likes with his own domain(s). I do use Cloudflare for jgc.org but not for every domain that I own. Shrug.
stingraycharles 7y ago
I’m a customer using Argo, but I have to admit it’s not entirely visible to me how big the benefits are that I’m getting. I’m sure it’s great but.. just how much? Some visualizations would be nice. Additionally, we have found the Argo tunnel to be relatively unreliable. Once every few months it seems there is an issue with one of the PoPs, and it takes a long time before our tunnels reconnect (several hours even); which imho is fairly inexcusable for something as critical as this. As such we’ve had to migrate away from using the tunnel, leaving me with earlier mentioned questions on the value we’re getting.
- matsur 7y ago
  Analytics (including some cool visualizations) are available in the Traffic Analytics section of the dashboard. There is always more we can do — drop me a note at rustam@cloudflare.com if there are specific additional things you'd like to see. Re: tunnel reliability, sorry to hear you've had a poor experience. We've been working hard on hardening things like tunnel reconnection and would love for you to give tunnels another shot.
  - itsmatteomanf 7y ago
    Hey, will send you an e-mail myself if you don't mind about the first part of analytics. Community MVP here :)
  - stingraycharles 7y ago
    What's the current maturity of Argo tunnel, though? I'm getting the feeling it's still in beta, is this correct?
hguant 7y ago
Looking at how Argo is presented (from the blog post), it seems like you've got a really strong use case for SDN, if you're not already using that already. As far as I can tell, dynamically updating routes across an internal network is one of the best non-internal-to-data-center uses of SDN - can you expand a little more on this, if you do use it, or on why you don't, if I'm completely off base? Cheers, argo seems like an interesting project.
- matsur 7y ago
  Yes, Argo is very "SDN" under the covers :) The data plane runs on our x86 fleet and its control plane is driven by custom route computation and propagation systems (discussed a little more in the post). We're excited to talk more about the technical underpinnings of Argo in the future.
  - hguant 7y ago
    >Yes, Argo is very "SDN" under the covers :) Ha I was reading the post again thinking about how you all did this, and it boiled down to OpenFlow/OVS/SDN magic, or you REALLY went all in on Cisco offerings. >We're excited to talk more about the technical underpinnings of Argo in the future. Looking foward to this update, thanks for the response!
bayareanative 7y ago
Is the official motto: Argo FUrself? ;)

I’m the product manager for Argo and author of the blog. Happy to answer any questions!

by matsur 7y ago

I’m the product manager for Argo and author of the blog. Happy to answer any questions!

devy 7y ago

Is Argo open sourced? If not, will it be open sourced in the future?

eastdakota 7y ago
Rustam can weigh in here, but I'm not exactly sure what with Argo we'd open source. Argo is a collection of a bunch of different technologies that we use to measure the performance across our transit, peering, and backbone connections. We then send different requests down different paths depending on each customer's particular needs and settings. While I'd imagine we will open source parts of the overall system, there's not really a stand-alone package that we could make available for anyone else to use. If there's a particular part of the overall Argo that would be helpful for you or others, let us know and we'll certainly consider it. Here's a list of things we've built at Cloudflare and open sourced already: https://cloudflare.github.io/ https://cloudflare.github.io/
jbergstroem 7y ago
Frequent user of argo/argo tunnel checking in. As far as I know, the network/lower level parts are not yet in the open, but the tunnel bits are: - Tunnel (cloudflared): https://github.com/cloudflare/cloudflared https://github.com/cloudflare/cloudflared - Argo as ingress (k8s): https://github.com/cloudflare/cloudflare-ingress-controller/ https://github.com/cloudflare/cloudflare-ingress-controller/

lziest 7y ago

You should consider to remake those graphs comparing the jitters. The non-backbone graph shows a majority of data points are below 0, which is impossible, so that means there are a small long tail at the high >20ms band, and you intentionally cropped them out. So when you said "oh the backbone graph is much better!". No it is not, it is very confusing actually.

itsmatteomanf 7y ago
I think that is showing the different from the average, so the variance in the jitter. It's not the actual latency which is not actually revealed with the Backbone in place.

ignoramous 7y ago

Is Argo in same category as Google's GlobalLoadBalancer and AWS' GlobalAccelerator? If not, what are the differences? Can Argo be enabled at network layer, say VPN, and for other protocols say VoIP and not just HTTP/S? Does Argo take inspiration from published research? If so, which ones? Thanks.

matsur 7y ago
There are similarities between Argo and the Google/Amazon products you mention (as well as Azure's Front Door). All are aiming to solve similar problems inherent to routing on the Internet. Re: enabling Argo at the network layer, watch this space :) I'd love to hear more about what you'd like to do such a product — email me! rustam@cloudflare.com

scanr 7y ago

Can I use Argo as a localtunnel alternative in development?

samatcloudflare 7y ago
Yes you can. You can run an Argo Tunnel without a Cloudflare account using the feature below. It's like ngrok, but with Argo Smart Routing. https://developers.cloudflare.com/argo-tunnel/trycloudflare/ https://developers.cloudflare.com/argo-tunnel/trycloudflare/

gist 7y ago

Off topic but your personal domain is lalkaka.com (your profile) and it does not have a web page. Now before HN jumps on me for this (I know you just use it for email) there is something about someone who works for cloudflare not only not using cloudflare (dns is google domains not cf) but not having the domain resolve to at least a simple 'hello' on a web page.

mynameisvlad 7y ago
Why does any of this matter, even in the slightest, when talking about "Argo and the Cloudflare Global Private Backbone" which is what this post is about. Not everyone needs to have a web page, nor does an employee of a company have to use their services (especially if they spun up their domain, website, whathaveyou before working for the company) for any sort of personal project.
- gist 7y ago
  > Why does any of this matter, even in the slightest, when talking about "Argo and the Cloudflare Global Private Backbone" which is what this post is about. So I need to explain to someone who doesn't think that it matters that it matters to me? The fact that a post is about something else has never prevented people who take the time to comment on HN (an unpaid endeavor) from voicing an opinion on something related or ironic in some way. > nor does an employee of a company have to use their services (especially if they spun up their domain, website, whathaveyou before working for the company) for any sort of personal project. You are right it is not codified into some law. But as a general rule it makes more practical sense for an employee to use the employers products especially if they are posting a comment on a blog about another service that the employer offers where it's easy to see (such as I did) that they are not using the employers free primarily product that they are known for. Why should the employer not expect that their employees use their free product (which jgrahamc does use of course for his personal domain JGC.ORG ..).
  - jgrahamc 7y ago
    Rustam does whatever he likes with his own domain(s). I do use Cloudflare for jgc.org but not for every domain that I own. Shrug.

stingraycharles 7y ago

I’m a customer using Argo, but I have to admit it’s not entirely visible to me how big the benefits are that I’m getting. I’m sure it’s great but.. just how much? Some visualizations would be nice. Additionally, we have found the Argo tunnel to be relatively unreliable. Once every few months it seems there is an issue with one of the PoPs, and it takes a long time before our tunnels reconnect (several hours even); which imho is fairly inexcusable for something as critical as this. As such we’ve had to migrate away from using the tunnel, leaving me with earlier mentioned questions on the value we’re getting.

matsur 7y ago
Analytics (including some cool visualizations) are available in the Traffic Analytics section of the dashboard. There is always more we can do — drop me a note at rustam@cloudflare.com if there are specific additional things you'd like to see. Re: tunnel reliability, sorry to hear you've had a poor experience. We've been working hard on hardening things like tunnel reconnection and would love for you to give tunnels another shot.
- itsmatteomanf 7y ago
  Hey, will send you an e-mail myself if you don't mind about the first part of analytics. Community MVP here :)
- stingraycharles 7y ago
  What's the current maturity of Argo tunnel, though? I'm getting the feeling it's still in beta, is this correct?

hguant 7y ago

Looking at how Argo is presented (from the blog post), it seems like you've got a really strong use case for SDN, if you're not already using that already. As far as I can tell, dynamically updating routes across an internal network is one of the best non-internal-to-data-center uses of SDN - can you expand a little more on this, if you do use it, or on why you don't, if I'm completely off base? Cheers, argo seems like an interesting project.

matsur 7y ago
Yes, Argo is very "SDN" under the covers :) The data plane runs on our x86 fleet and its control plane is driven by custom route computation and propagation systems (discussed a little more in the post). We're excited to talk more about the technical underpinnings of Argo in the future.
- hguant 7y ago
  >Yes, Argo is very "SDN" under the covers :) Ha I was reading the post again thinking about how you all did this, and it boiled down to OpenFlow/OVS/SDN magic, or you REALLY went all in on Cisco offerings. >We're excited to talk more about the technical underpinnings of Argo in the future. Looking foward to this update, thanks for the response!

bayareanative 7y ago

Is the official motto: Argo FUrself? ;)