3 ms·

If we take all the money the Netherlands spends on social security, welfare, pensions, etc, and add extra money from increased taxes (make it flat 50-60%), ever

If we take all the money the Netherlands spends on social security, welfare, pensions, etc, and add extra money from increased taxes (make it flat 50-60%), every single household can have a UBI of about 42 000 euros/year. The numbers are similar for other western economies.

EpicEng 7y ago
>add extra money from increased taxes (make it flat 50-60%) Good luck passing a bill that raises my effective tax rate from 17% to 55%. Obviously if you take a whole lot more money from everyone else there will be more to hand out to others.
- sim_card_map 7y ago
  There's no way your effective rate goes from 17% to 55%. Did you include the extra 3000/month you'll be getting?
  - EpicEng 7y ago
    Ok that's fair; I completely ignored the ~$36,000 deduction I'd be getting.
  - gridlockd 7y ago
    The effective total rate of taxes may not be 55%, but the rate on income earned would be. Who would work full-time in an ordinary job if it was taxed at 55% when they simultaneously get paid a generous UBI? Also remember you counted in pensions into your budget, those are separate from taxes. So the net profit from working would be maybe 30% or less - ridiculous!
gridlockd 7y ago
> If we take all the money the Netherlands spends on social security, welfare, pensions... Okay... > ... add extra money from increased taxes (make it flat 50-60%) No. You can't presume anything about increased revenue from extra taxes. If you taxed income for any amount of work at 50% and you give every "household" 42,000€ (which I assume is livable in NL) you would drastically reduce the incentive to work and pay taxes, so your actual tax revenue goes down. > The numbers are similar for other western economies. The numbers generally say that if you pool all the social spending, you can redistribute it to everyone and it will pay for a subsistence level of living. However, a big part of that pool is pensions, which are liabilities in proportion to the amount paid by the individual. A lot of pensioners would be subsidizing people who never paid into the system. That's the main problem.

EpicEng 7y ago

>add extra money from increased taxes (make it flat 50-60%) Good luck passing a bill that raises my effective tax rate from 17% to 55%. Obviously if you take a whole lot more money from everyone else there will be more to hand out to others.

sim_card_map 7y ago
There's no way your effective rate goes from 17% to 55%. Did you include the extra 3000/month you'll be getting?
- EpicEng 7y ago
  Ok that's fair; I completely ignored the ~$36,000 deduction I'd be getting.
- gridlockd 7y ago
  The effective total rate of taxes may not be 55%, but the rate on income earned would be. Who would work full-time in an ordinary job if it was taxed at 55% when they simultaneously get paid a generous UBI? Also remember you counted in pensions into your budget, those are separate from taxes. So the net profit from working would be maybe 30% or less - ridiculous!

gridlockd 7y ago

> If we take all the money the Netherlands spends on social security, welfare, pensions... Okay... > ... add extra money from increased taxes (make it flat 50-60%) No. You can't presume anything about increased revenue from extra taxes. If you taxed income for any amount of work at 50% and you give every "household" 42,000€ (which I assume is livable in NL) you would drastically reduce the incentive to work and pay taxes, so your actual tax revenue goes down. > The numbers are similar for other western economies. The numbers generally say that if you pool all the social spending, you can redistribute it to everyone and it will pay for a subsistence level of living. However, a big part of that pool is pensions, which are liabilities in proportion to the amount paid by the individual. A lot of pensioners would be subsidizing people who never paid into the system. That's the main problem.