3 ms·

Very smart (and relatively cheap) way to find good engineers!

chunkbot 16y ago
I don't know about that. While being a good hacker probably correlates with being a good engineer, I think that the focus on "hacking" excludes a lot of very capable people. I know from personal hiring experience that a lot of qualified people are put off by the emphasis on being a hacker. To expand on this, I don't think winning a multi-round programming competition (that is, successfully solving multiple algorithm-based problem statements under a time constraint with the highest accuracy and speed) is the best indicator of a good hire.
- nostrademons 16y ago
  I wish more programming competitions followed the format of the ICFP. 72 hours, teams of a half dozen or so, solving an open-ended problem, often an optimization problem where an exact solution is NP-hard. You're judged by how well you do, not by whether you get the correct answer (which often isn't computationally feasible anyway). That seems to most closely approximate real-world programming problems.
  - pcarmichael 16y ago
    I completely agree the ICFP contest matches real-world problems better. I can't recommend it enough. The longer timeframe requires discipline and good planning, while also providing a bit of a buffer for early (minor) mistakes. Having a strong and well organized team is huge. You'll learn a lot about your teammates in the process, both behaviorally and technically. However, I've had to go solo the last two years and still enjoyed it immensely - it just changes how you prioritize some of the development.
tlrobinson 16y ago
Pseudo-related random anecdote: In college (circa 2005) I came across some programming puzzles Facebook had posted for people interested in jobs. I thought Facebook might be an interesting place to work, so I came up with solutions to a couple of them, but never sent them in because I wasn't graduating for a year or two. I mentioned this to a few friends who laughed at the idea of working at Facebook. Not so funny now, eh?
- gms 16y ago
  Sadly some programmers today still laugh at that idea.
- brown9-2 16y ago
  Makes you wonder about what prospective employers people are laughing about today.
  - ardit33 16y ago
    I remember in 2007 I was at the Zynga party in Portreo Hill. thrown with some other startups. I think at the time it was only 17 people, and they were looking for engineers. My friends and I were like, nah, another silly gaming company. Now their cap is almost equal to EA. The beauty of the valley that every 5 years the landscape changes and roles reverse. Be nice to other people, your fellow engineers, your employees if you are a manager, as they might be your boss in few years. Something that I am learning myself, live and learn.
- photon_off 16y ago
  Exactly this. I remember there were 5-6 problems they had: Gamblor, Prime Bits, SuperPatterns, a Unicode problem, and perhaps another graph related one. I managed to finish maybe four of them in my spare time at college, and wasn't too excited about working for Facebook. At the time I thought it was just a poor substitute for MySpace, which I didn't have much respect for anyway, and that it was technologically uninteresting. So, I never sent them in. I wonder how fb engineers hired (c) 2005 are doing.

I don't know about that. While being a good hacker probably correlates with being a good engineer, I think that the focus on "hacking" excludes a lot of very capable people. I know from personal hiring experience that a lot of qualified people are put off by the emphasis on being a hacker. To expand on this, I don't think winning a multi-round programming competition (that is, successfully solving multiple algorithm-based problem statements under a time constraint with the highest accuracy and speed) is the best indicator of a good hire.

nostrademons 16y ago
I wish more programming competitions followed the format of the ICFP. 72 hours, teams of a half dozen or so, solving an open-ended problem, often an optimization problem where an exact solution is NP-hard. You're judged by how well you do, not by whether you get the correct answer (which often isn't computationally feasible anyway). That seems to most closely approximate real-world programming problems.
- pcarmichael 16y ago
  I completely agree the ICFP contest matches real-world problems better. I can't recommend it enough. The longer timeframe requires discipline and good planning, while also providing a bit of a buffer for early (minor) mistakes. Having a strong and well organized team is huge. You'll learn a lot about your teammates in the process, both behaviorally and technically. However, I've had to go solo the last two years and still enjoyed it immensely - it just changes how you prioritize some of the development.

tlrobinson 16y ago

Pseudo-related random anecdote: In college (circa 2005) I came across some programming puzzles Facebook had posted for people interested in jobs. I thought Facebook might be an interesting place to work, so I came up with solutions to a couple of them, but never sent them in because I wasn't graduating for a year or two. I mentioned this to a few friends who laughed at the idea of working at Facebook. Not so funny now, eh?

gms 16y ago
Sadly some programmers today still laugh at that idea.
brown9-2 16y ago
Makes you wonder about what prospective employers people are laughing about today.
- ardit33 16y ago
  I remember in 2007 I was at the Zynga party in Portreo Hill. thrown with some other startups. I think at the time it was only 17 people, and they were looking for engineers. My friends and I were like, nah, another silly gaming company. Now their cap is almost equal to EA. The beauty of the valley that every 5 years the landscape changes and roles reverse. Be nice to other people, your fellow engineers, your employees if you are a manager, as they might be your boss in few years. Something that I am learning myself, live and learn.
photon_off 16y ago
Exactly this. I remember there were 5-6 problems they had: Gamblor, Prime Bits, SuperPatterns, a Unicode problem, and perhaps another graph related one. I managed to finish maybe four of them in my spare time at college, and wasn't too excited about working for Facebook. At the time I thought it was just a poor substitute for MySpace, which I didn't have much respect for anyway, and that it was technologically uninteresting. So, I never sent them in. I wonder how fb engineers hired (c) 2005 are doing.