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Why is Lidar the wrong horse? Because Elon Musk made a slideshow and you drank the Koolaid? I don't like Uber but as far as autonomous driving is involved, Ube

Why is Lidar the wrong horse? Because Elon Musk made a slideshow and you drank the Koolaid? I don't like Uber but as far as autonomous driving is involved, Uber and Waymo use Lidar AND camera arrays versus Tesla only using camera arrays. I don't see at all how that is a deal breaker.

alehul 7y ago
^ this. Just because humans can operate a car with vision-only capabilities doesn't mean that we shouldn't use LIDAR. Every redundancy will be highly valued when human lives are at stake, and we've seen many times with Tesla how cameras alone can be fooled.
- somethoughts 7y ago
  I think Elon is correct with an important caveat. If you are pursuing the Tesla self driving car business model which is selling a mid range luxury self driving car directly to the end consumer (and potentially operated for 4-6 hours a day as an autonomous taxi) then the cost of sensors is paramount. If you are pursuing other business models such as Uber and Lyft and Waymo, where the taxi will be purchased as a fleet, fleet managed by the operator and operated 24x7 for 5 years straight, then the cost of camera sensors + LIDAR suite will be full amortized over the 5 year life of the car and therefore be somewhat of a rounding error in the total investment return.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - jjeaff 7y ago
    Elon may be right, but he isn't saying that because he thinks he's right. He's saying cameras are the only way because it's the only thing equipped on Teslas right now that are supposedly "autonomous ready". To admit otherwise would be disastrous for stock price and future sales. And to include lidarr at their current sale price would not be possible.
leesec 7y ago
Fundamentally, if a product can exist without an expensive component, it will beat solution's that contain that expensive component.
- Uhhrrr 7y ago
  > it will beat solutions that contain that expensive component It will beat comparable solutions that contain that expensive component.
- warp_factor 7y ago
  The fundamental question is if a product that can exist without an expensive component (lidar) will ever be of the same quality as the one with it.
- kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
  Self driving cars that are 99.999% safe in a human environment do not exist. Cheaping out on sensors will not improve the safety.

alehul 7y ago

^ this. Just because humans can operate a car with vision-only capabilities doesn't mean that we shouldn't use LIDAR. Every redundancy will be highly valued when human lives are at stake, and we've seen many times with Tesla how cameras alone can be fooled.

somethoughts 7y ago
I think Elon is correct with an important caveat. If you are pursuing the Tesla self driving car business model which is selling a mid range luxury self driving car directly to the end consumer (and potentially operated for 4-6 hours a day as an autonomous taxi) then the cost of sensors is paramount. If you are pursuing other business models such as Uber and Lyft and Waymo, where the taxi will be purchased as a fleet, fleet managed by the operator and operated 24x7 for 5 years straight, then the cost of camera sensors + LIDAR suite will be full amortized over the 5 year life of the car and therefore be somewhat of a rounding error in the total investment return.
- deleted 7y ago
  [deleted]
- jjeaff 7y ago
  Elon may be right, but he isn't saying that because he thinks he's right. He's saying cameras are the only way because it's the only thing equipped on Teslas right now that are supposedly "autonomous ready". To admit otherwise would be disastrous for stock price and future sales. And to include lidarr at their current sale price would not be possible.

leesec 7y ago

Fundamentally, if a product can exist without an expensive component, it will beat solution's that contain that expensive component.

Uhhrrr 7y ago
> it will beat solutions that contain that expensive component It will beat comparable solutions that contain that expensive component.
warp_factor 7y ago
The fundamental question is if a product that can exist without an expensive component (lidar) will ever be of the same quality as the one with it.
kevin_thibedeau 7y ago
Self driving cars that are 99.999% safe in a human environment do not exist. Cheaping out on sensors will not improve the safety.