5 ms·

This is stranger than fiction. I would have laughed 15 years ago if someone suggested DRM and electronic licensing would ever be applied to a tractor.

EADGBE 7y ago
Most wouldn't have even known what these meant.
zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 7y ago
What I am wondering: Has that changed what you laugh about now? Like, what people warn about our future now? As far as I am concerned, this is exactly what I expected, and I am seriously surprised anyone could be surprised by it. Like, I was not necessarily thinking specifically about tractors 15 years ago, but I think it was just obvious that DRM would be used to gain control over devices that are run by software, and obviously pretty much all devices sooner or later would be run by software, and as such, of course, tractors would be, too, sooner or later.
- ddingus 7y ago
  Great question! For me, yes. I do think differently about these warnings. We are in an interesting time. How we resolve these basics are going to impact people and the planet for a very long time. It also impacts what I do. One thing is I am extremely reluctant to depend on things I cannot repair. Grew up rural, and repair was a basic skill in life. I am thankful for it. Has saved me so many times. Right to repair is a major issue, close to my heart.
- freedomben 7y ago
  Completely agree. I also wasn't thinking about tractors (or really vehicles for that matter), but in the mid-2000s I was helping build "tamper proof" devices for my employer. Listening to Richard Stallman talk I would think he was crazy. Then I saw how much we raked in providing "support" for the tamper-proof devices when they needed service. It became quickly apparent that the rest of the industry was just a little bit behind. We are headed to a crazy world. Cory Doctorow's message on the War on General Purpose Computing is more relevant than ever. For anyone that hasn't seen his Cory, he's got numerous videos on Youtube. Check out some of his talks at Google.
- wccrawford 7y ago
  When most non-farmers think of tractors, they think of something like a dumbed-down car with a lot of power. It's an engine that drags a tool through a field. The idea that something like that could be locked behind components that can't be fixed or replaced cheaply is astounding to them. I feel like it's the same as asking Henry Ford what he thinks about all the electronics in today's cars. It'd blow his mind.
  - zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 7y ago
    Well, yeah, sure, but I guess I was assuming people who knew what DRM is, not necessarily the general public--if you didn't even know what DRM is, it's not that surprising you probably wouldn't have an idea of how it would be used.
Someone1234 7y ago
This comment might apply to cars 15 years from now. Tesla is likely the closest to "car as a service" but it has been coming along for a few years across the entire auto industry.
- mrguyorama 7y ago
  My understanding is that ford is really really bad for this as well, requiring incredibly expensive computers, software packages, and training to repair even basic things without it pissing off the ECU
  - stochastic_monk 7y ago
    This is why I will never again own a Ford. (That, and the endless recalls.)
    - jacquesm 7y ago
      And the bits falling off the car within the warranty period, that turn out not to be part of the warranty after all. In my case: a transmission brace that broke under light use in under a year on an F150.
      - mywittyname 7y ago
        Or the aluminum hood on my car that has a massive paint defect that isn't covered by the paint warranty because it needs to "rust" through for them to cover it. They added that clause to the warranty agreement knowing that aluminum will never rust, rather than fixing an issue they knew about for over a decade.
    - navigatesol 7y ago
      I just finished up the second of back to back Ford leases this month (2010 F-150, 2014 Fiesta ST) and didn't have a single issue with either car. 8 years, 2 cars, only oil changes, tires and brakes (on the ST). I guess your mileage may vary, literally.
colechristensen 7y ago
You wouldn't had you been in the market for a tractor 15 years ago. Unfixable black box electronics has been a part of farm machinery for quite a while now.
- jethro_tell 7y ago
  The reason people talk about working on older cars/trucks/tractors as easier, isn't because they are to incompetent to work with the electronics, it's because for the most part they are a black box.
jayesobj 7y ago
Tractors are behemoths of modern machinery. I have relatives in the tractor industry, as well as relatives who are farming, and this has been coming for a long time. Tractors are ridiculously expensive. I was talking with a relative who sells them, and some of them cost more than pretty nice homes in the city we live in (as in, we live in a large metro area, and they can easily cost more than a very large, attractive home). These things aren't just tilling dirt like you might have in the 20s either, or like you might with a garden in your backyard. There's all sorts of modern planting and harvesting methods, and tractors are sort of the engine that drives a lot of this machinery (which is very large). The technology involved can be complex, and it's often tied to aerial surveillance, soil monitoring etc. The intellectual property problems associated with Deere and other manufacturers go beyond DRM per se. Deere over the last couple of decades has tried to force smaller sellers to abandon other manufacturers. I.e., "as of X date, if you continue to carry equipment from other manufacturers, we will no longer supply you with Deere equipment." This is extraordinarily anticompetitive when you consider that these pieces of equipment are extremely expensive, and that the dealers are geographically very sparse. So, it's hard on the farmers because if the dealer does become Deere-exclusive they might have to travel far to find alternatives, and it's hard on the dealers, because they are forced to put their eggs in one basket even when the buyers might want (or need) choice. I've seen families split apart actually in cases where one part of the family is on the dealer or farmer side, and the other is on the Deere side. Deere really has become anticompetitive in many ways, not just with DRM. If there ever was a case for antitrust enforcement in my opinion, it would probably be with Deere.

EADGBE 7y ago

Most wouldn't have even known what these meant.

zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 7y ago

What I am wondering: Has that changed what you laugh about now? Like, what people warn about our future now? As far as I am concerned, this is exactly what I expected, and I am seriously surprised anyone could be surprised by it. Like, I was not necessarily thinking specifically about tractors 15 years ago, but I think it was just obvious that DRM would be used to gain control over devices that are run by software, and obviously pretty much all devices sooner or later would be run by software, and as such, of course, tractors would be, too, sooner or later.

ddingus 7y ago
Great question! For me, yes. I do think differently about these warnings. We are in an interesting time. How we resolve these basics are going to impact people and the planet for a very long time. It also impacts what I do. One thing is I am extremely reluctant to depend on things I cannot repair. Grew up rural, and repair was a basic skill in life. I am thankful for it. Has saved me so many times. Right to repair is a major issue, close to my heart.
freedomben 7y ago
Completely agree. I also wasn't thinking about tractors (or really vehicles for that matter), but in the mid-2000s I was helping build "tamper proof" devices for my employer. Listening to Richard Stallman talk I would think he was crazy. Then I saw how much we raked in providing "support" for the tamper-proof devices when they needed service. It became quickly apparent that the rest of the industry was just a little bit behind. We are headed to a crazy world. Cory Doctorow's message on the War on General Purpose Computing is more relevant than ever. For anyone that hasn't seen his Cory, he's got numerous videos on Youtube. Check out some of his talks at Google.
wccrawford 7y ago
When most non-farmers think of tractors, they think of something like a dumbed-down car with a lot of power. It's an engine that drags a tool through a field. The idea that something like that could be locked behind components that can't be fixed or replaced cheaply is astounding to them. I feel like it's the same as asking Henry Ford what he thinks about all the electronics in today's cars. It'd blow his mind.
- zAy0LfpBZLC8mAC 7y ago
  Well, yeah, sure, but I guess I was assuming people who knew what DRM is, not necessarily the general public--if you didn't even know what DRM is, it's not that surprising you probably wouldn't have an idea of how it would be used.

Someone1234 7y ago

This comment might apply to cars 15 years from now. Tesla is likely the closest to "car as a service" but it has been coming along for a few years across the entire auto industry.

mrguyorama 7y ago
My understanding is that ford is really really bad for this as well, requiring incredibly expensive computers, software packages, and training to repair even basic things without it pissing off the ECU
- stochastic_monk 7y ago
  This is why I will never again own a Ford. (That, and the endless recalls.)
  - jacquesm 7y ago
    And the bits falling off the car within the warranty period, that turn out not to be part of the warranty after all. In my case: a transmission brace that broke under light use in under a year on an F150.
    - mywittyname 7y ago
      Or the aluminum hood on my car that has a massive paint defect that isn't covered by the paint warranty because it needs to "rust" through for them to cover it. They added that clause to the warranty agreement knowing that aluminum will never rust, rather than fixing an issue they knew about for over a decade.
  - navigatesol 7y ago
    I just finished up the second of back to back Ford leases this month (2010 F-150, 2014 Fiesta ST) and didn't have a single issue with either car. 8 years, 2 cars, only oil changes, tires and brakes (on the ST). I guess your mileage may vary, literally.

colechristensen 7y ago

You wouldn't had you been in the market for a tractor 15 years ago. Unfixable black box electronics has been a part of farm machinery for quite a while now.

jethro_tell 7y ago
The reason people talk about working on older cars/trucks/tractors as easier, isn't because they are to incompetent to work with the electronics, it's because for the most part they are a black box.

jayesobj 7y ago

Tractors are behemoths of modern machinery. I have relatives in the tractor industry, as well as relatives who are farming, and this has been coming for a long time. Tractors are ridiculously expensive. I was talking with a relative who sells them, and some of them cost more than pretty nice homes in the city we live in (as in, we live in a large metro area, and they can easily cost more than a very large, attractive home). These things aren't just tilling dirt like you might have in the 20s either, or like you might with a garden in your backyard. There's all sorts of modern planting and harvesting methods, and tractors are sort of the engine that drives a lot of this machinery (which is very large). The technology involved can be complex, and it's often tied to aerial surveillance, soil monitoring etc. The intellectual property problems associated with Deere and other manufacturers go beyond DRM per se. Deere over the last couple of decades has tried to force smaller sellers to abandon other manufacturers. I.e., "as of X date, if you continue to carry equipment from other manufacturers, we will no longer supply you with Deere equipment." This is extraordinarily anticompetitive when you consider that these pieces of equipment are extremely expensive, and that the dealers are geographically very sparse. So, it's hard on the farmers because if the dealer does become Deere-exclusive they might have to travel far to find alternatives, and it's hard on the dealers, because they are forced to put their eggs in one basket even when the buyers might want (or need) choice. I've seen families split apart actually in cases where one part of the family is on the dealer or farmer side, and the other is on the Deere side. Deere really has become anticompetitive in many ways, not just with DRM. If there ever was a case for antitrust enforcement in my opinion, it would probably be with Deere.