5 ms·

16000 people going through these fairly mundane bit of EU legal procedures. Some of them will have done worse things, but many of them will have done much less

by PJDK 7y ago

16000 people going through these fairly mundane bit of EU legal procedures. Some of them will have done worse things, but many of them will have done much less worse things (like the aforementioned chicken theft. What international manhunt? Man runs into embassy escaping bail - police wait outside. What other outcome could there have been?

blub 7y ago
So the actual number of extradition requests for alleged sleep-sex-offenders could actually be 0, you didn't even check in detail? This is quite anti-climatic. Alternative outcome: the brits spare 16m £, which they can then invest in fighting real crime. They arrest the alleged offender when flying or at any routine control, since he's not a danger to anyone. Anyone except those unmasked by the leaks.
- PJDK 7y ago
  I'm afraid that data isn't readily available - although I'm sure it's public somewhere But...this is a serious crime we're talking about here, I'm not sure why you think otherwise?
- SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
  I'm not sure why you're trying to hand-wave this away by using language like "alleged sleep-sex-offenders" and "having sex with their sleeping sex partner without a condom". If this falls under the definition of rape in Sweden then the extradition request is for just that - a charge of rape. This is a very serious crime. Whether you agree with their definition or not doesn't really affect the legality or validity of the request. If you think these charges are bogus because of some grander conspiracy against a personal hero of yours just say, there are plenty of others in this thread who'll gladly back you up.
  - blub 7y ago
    I think everyones's focus on the man and the crime is bogus, because the courts will either way reach a decision hopefully resembling justice. The public should focus on the war crimes, torture and corruption, because this will end up in the history books.
    - r3bl 7y ago
      One act, regardless of how heroic it might be, doesn't mean that the person should be free from consequences for the rest of their lives. The US extraditing him for conspiracy charges would be really tragic. Sweden wanting to hold him accountable for his behavior afterwards is completely fine.
      - blub 7y ago
        I already said the courts will take care of it. Why is everyone focusing so much on a person that's had their minutes of fame instead of the crimes they exposed? This whole thread is full of people debating the definition of rape. Is everyone working for the Swedish prosecution or how is this in any way relevant to anything...
  - JamesBarney 7y ago
    Here's the longest most explicit story on the incident I could find. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-sweden https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange... It definitely paints a picture of him being a dirtbag but I don't know if this would even be illegal in the U.S. or what people would conventionally describe as rape.
    - deleted 7y ago
      [deleted]
    - saalweachter 7y ago
      If only there were some system of international law by which a country could decide if they found the other country's laws to be compatible with their own, both in the definition of crimes and their punishments, and could then decide whether they wanted to comply with an individual extradition request on a case by case basis. It's such a shame that any country in the world can issue an extradition request to any other country in the world for any reason, and that other country has no choice but to immediately comply with it.
      - JamesBarney 7y ago
        He should definitely be extradited, but they described it as sex with a sleeping person not non-consensual condom removal. Both are awful and he should face penalties for his actions but the victims claimed he committed one form of sexual assault and not the other. Also I don't think non-consensual condom removal is illegal in the U.S. though it definitely should be.
- rayiner 7y ago
  Having sex with someone who is sleeping is “real rape” and it’s “real crime.” It’s not even a close call.
  - Melchizedek 7y ago
    Wow, these women must be incredibly deep sleepers.
  - JamesBarney 7y ago
    The only description I found was during several acts of consensual intercourse she fell half asleep and she thinks that he might have ejaculated without a condom. I don't think she's was saying the sex was non-consensual just that he if he did ejaculate inside of her that was without her consent. If this is incorrect I'd like to know because in my mind I'd labeled him as "dirtbag but not rapist". But happy to label him a rapist if he is one.
belorn 7y ago
> but many of them will have done much less worse things (like the aforementioned chicken theft. Please point to an actually case where Sweden has issued an European arrest warrant for a lesser crime. I have looked and could not find a single one.

by PJDK 7y ago

blub 7y ago

So the actual number of extradition requests for alleged sleep-sex-offenders could actually be 0, you didn't even check in detail? This is quite anti-climatic. Alternative outcome: the brits spare 16m £, which they can then invest in fighting real crime. They arrest the alleged offender when flying or at any routine control, since he's not a danger to anyone. Anyone except those unmasked by the leaks.

PJDK 7y ago
I'm afraid that data isn't readily available - although I'm sure it's public somewhere But...this is a serious crime we're talking about here, I'm not sure why you think otherwise?
SmellyGeekBoy 7y ago
I'm not sure why you're trying to hand-wave this away by using language like "alleged sleep-sex-offenders" and "having sex with their sleeping sex partner without a condom". If this falls under the definition of rape in Sweden then the extradition request is for just that - a charge of rape. This is a very serious crime. Whether you agree with their definition or not doesn't really affect the legality or validity of the request. If you think these charges are bogus because of some grander conspiracy against a personal hero of yours just say, there are plenty of others in this thread who'll gladly back you up.
- blub 7y ago
  I think everyones's focus on the man and the crime is bogus, because the courts will either way reach a decision hopefully resembling justice. The public should focus on the war crimes, torture and corruption, because this will end up in the history books.
  - r3bl 7y ago
    One act, regardless of how heroic it might be, doesn't mean that the person should be free from consequences for the rest of their lives. The US extraditing him for conspiracy charges would be really tragic. Sweden wanting to hold him accountable for his behavior afterwards is completely fine.
    - blub 7y ago
      I already said the courts will take care of it. Why is everyone focusing so much on a person that's had their minutes of fame instead of the crimes they exposed? This whole thread is full of people debating the definition of rape. Is everyone working for the Swedish prosecution or how is this in any way relevant to anything...
- JamesBarney 7y ago
  Here's the longest most explicit story on the incident I could find. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange-sweden https://www.theguardian.com/media/2010/dec/17/julian-assange... It definitely paints a picture of him being a dirtbag but I don't know if this would even be illegal in the U.S. or what people would conventionally describe as rape.
  - deleted 7y ago
    [deleted]
  - saalweachter 7y ago
    If only there were some system of international law by which a country could decide if they found the other country's laws to be compatible with their own, both in the definition of crimes and their punishments, and could then decide whether they wanted to comply with an individual extradition request on a case by case basis. It's such a shame that any country in the world can issue an extradition request to any other country in the world for any reason, and that other country has no choice but to immediately comply with it.
    - JamesBarney 7y ago
      He should definitely be extradited, but they described it as sex with a sleeping person not non-consensual condom removal. Both are awful and he should face penalties for his actions but the victims claimed he committed one form of sexual assault and not the other. Also I don't think non-consensual condom removal is illegal in the U.S. though it definitely should be.
rayiner 7y ago
Having sex with someone who is sleeping is “real rape” and it’s “real crime.” It’s not even a close call.
- Melchizedek 7y ago
  Wow, these women must be incredibly deep sleepers.
- JamesBarney 7y ago
  The only description I found was during several acts of consensual intercourse she fell half asleep and she thinks that he might have ejaculated without a condom. I don't think she's was saying the sex was non-consensual just that he if he did ejaculate inside of her that was without her consent. If this is incorrect I'd like to know because in my mind I'd labeled him as "dirtbag but not rapist". But happy to label him a rapist if he is one.

belorn 7y ago

> but many of them will have done much less worse things (like the aforementioned chicken theft. Please point to an actually case where Sweden has issued an European arrest warrant for a lesser crime. I have looked and could not find a single one.