7 ms·

I guess i'm kind of old now but it's odd because I seem to remember that when I played mmorpgs, especially pvp, it was the reverse. Players who were decked out

by frankc 7y ago

I guess i'm kind of old now but it's odd because I seem to remember that when I played mmorpgs, especially pvp, it was the reverse. Players who were decked out in fancy armor that they did not directly earn in game were called 'twinkies' and generally derided. When I played guild wars, most of the good pvp people just had default outfits. The pve players with fancy clothes who came into pvp generally were viewed as worse at pvp (and it was often true because their builds did not translate well into pvp).

mcv 7y ago
That's also my view. The metagame of free to play games is to resist all the temptations to spend money on it. People who spend money on it have lost.
- Konnstann 7y ago
  At some point in my life I realized that some games were worth spending money on, especially given the amount of time spent in them. I can understand your point of view, and I totally agree in the context of children/teens but I try not to play games that heavily incentivize spending, so when I put 100+ hours into a game, I don't consider buying some microtransactions "losing".
  - mcv 7y ago
    I totally agree. You wouldn't want to know how much money I spent on Europa Universalis and Crusader Kings. But I know what I'm buying and why, and it's a conscious decision, not succumbing to pressure or temptation. I think it's healthy to recognise when a system, game or otherwise, tries to manipulate you into spending money, and I try to teach my son to recognise that. It's fine to spend money, but spend it on something that's worth it, something you want, not something you're pressured into.
    - Konnstann 7y ago
      F2P games unfortunately fall into the dichotomy where the target market is usually the people with the least amount of money to spend, but also with the least amount of willpower/experience to resist spending it. I'm glad that when I was growing up the closest thing I had to the microtransaction hell that is F2P were MMOs that I couldn't run, and all my games came on CDs.
  - vorpalhex 7y ago
    I've definitely found those games where I've sunk amazing amounts of time into them (Stormworks Search and Rescue is a current one, Path of Exile in the past) and have debated buying a few extra copies just to try and encourage the devs...
- brootstrap 7y ago
  I'm with you guys. I'm one of the types who likes to flow against the meta while still kicking ass (sometimes). I am not a fortnite player but nothing is more satisfying then getting into some good PvP action and schooling one of these noobies who thinks they are good because they bought stuff. I'm sure there is all kinds of cyber bullying, fortnite bullying and stuff. I must have been lucky but as a youth I had a couple real friends. We played halo all the day, i wasnt the best. I usually sucked compared to some buddies. But we still teamed up and had fun playing together. It might not be easy for a current 8/10 year old boy to do this, but there are a zillion fortnite players. Maybe he can just find some other people to play with. Or if you are 8 years old, maybe you shouldnt be playing online shooting games. I wasnt able to do the online shootie stuff (halo era) until I could afford my own shit and bought an xbox with my own money. Yeah all of my friends parents bought shit for them and they had xbox live, all of it. Paid runescape account. We were 10/11/12. Sure i was a little bit out of it, no body wanted to come to my house cause I didnt have the online games yet. I just had a daughter recently and want to get her playing games. Like other parents in this thread, i am not feeding them money to buy in game shit. I'm not going to give her an iphone/ipad at age 4 and be surprised when she spends $1,000+ on in game shit. I've heard this exact story from multiple co-workers. I usually just laugh it off but part of me is like, the fuck is yoru problem giving your kid an ipad and giving them free reign? This co-worker is a c suite guy making a shit ton of money. Likely doesnt have enough time to actually _be_ with his kids so you just get an ipad.
  - tyfon 7y ago
    I bought a switch for my oldest daughter at 4, it's been great and has very good parental controls on an app. Lots of kid friendly games. My youngest is getting her own too in half a year when she turns 4.
- lalaithion 7y ago
  Not a free to play game, but I've now "saved up" 104 lootboxes in Overwatch. Most of my friends are baffled that I won't just open them.
- asdff 7y ago
  Nothing like getting cocky kills against people who dropped $50+ on fortnight while wearing the default skin. Thrive on their rage, let it fuel you.
bick_nyers 7y ago
Relevant: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinking https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinking For me, twinking in World of Warcraft was locking my character's level and then finding the absolute best gear for that level. Due to how stat scaling is changed from expansion to expansion, you can find "breakpoints" where the stats from BiS (best-in-slot) gear for a level scale your stats significantly higher than what was supposed to be possible. An example of this was during the MoP expansion, level 80 twinks could use item level 409 gear (with level 80 being designed around ~272 level gear) and would get ludicrous stats, like 50% critical hit chances. This allowed level 80s to actually compete with level 90s, like when someone soloed a 10-man level 90 boss as a level 80: https://www.engadget.com/2013/01/09/level-80-paladin-solos-some-mogushan-vaults-bosses-gets-vengea/ https://www.engadget.com/2013/01/09/level-80-paladin-solos-s...
gameswithgo 7y ago
The difference is because the skins in fortnite/pubg don't do anything. They give you no advantage. So there is no negativity towards them. Also there is no way to get (most) of them without buying them.
- shados 7y ago
  Something still changed. League of Legends at its peak wasn't quite as popular as Fortnite, but it was still roughly in the same order of magnitude (at least last I checked), and while people went "oooooh!" at some of the fancier or rarer skins, no one gave a flying duck if you used the defaults. So something did happen. Could be as simple as a different target demographic, though.
  - munchbunny 7y ago
    I don't think it's just the target demographic. I think this desire for self-expression was always there, but game producers/developers have only recently fully embraced the idea. I have gamer friends (~30 years old) who joke about "Fashion Destiny" (referring to the video game series) and so on, except that they clearly really do care about the cosmetics because the availability of certain cosmetic pieces will get them to go back into the game and grind out 50 hours of gameplay, or cough up $X for Overwatch loot boxes, or pre-order, or buy the battle pass, etc. It never gets to the point of bullying because we're 30 years old and we all carry guilt over the frivolity of dumping money into virtual cosmetics. But if you want a bunch of 30 year old men to talk about accessorizing like it's Sex and the City, just throw us into an in-game winter festival with cosmetic loot boxes. With Fortnite, I think there's a problem where the winner to loser ratio is so small in each round that win/loss and other performance metrics become meaningless, so there isn't some sort of reckoning in the form of the end-game scoreboard. With games I used to play (as opposed to the ones I play now), the shit talking mostly got settled when the other person outplayed you. Or vice versa. On the one hand I think the Fortnite dynamic helps to keep the game accessible, but on the other hand for lack of a clear direction (getting good at the game) players get a bit more cosmetic.

by frankc 7y ago

mcv 7y ago

That's also my view. The metagame of free to play games is to resist all the temptations to spend money on it. People who spend money on it have lost.

Konnstann 7y ago
At some point in my life I realized that some games were worth spending money on, especially given the amount of time spent in them. I can understand your point of view, and I totally agree in the context of children/teens but I try not to play games that heavily incentivize spending, so when I put 100+ hours into a game, I don't consider buying some microtransactions "losing".
- mcv 7y ago
  I totally agree. You wouldn't want to know how much money I spent on Europa Universalis and Crusader Kings. But I know what I'm buying and why, and it's a conscious decision, not succumbing to pressure or temptation. I think it's healthy to recognise when a system, game or otherwise, tries to manipulate you into spending money, and I try to teach my son to recognise that. It's fine to spend money, but spend it on something that's worth it, something you want, not something you're pressured into.
  - Konnstann 7y ago
    F2P games unfortunately fall into the dichotomy where the target market is usually the people with the least amount of money to spend, but also with the least amount of willpower/experience to resist spending it. I'm glad that when I was growing up the closest thing I had to the microtransaction hell that is F2P were MMOs that I couldn't run, and all my games came on CDs.
- vorpalhex 7y ago
  I've definitely found those games where I've sunk amazing amounts of time into them (Stormworks Search and Rescue is a current one, Path of Exile in the past) and have debated buying a few extra copies just to try and encourage the devs...
brootstrap 7y ago
I'm with you guys. I'm one of the types who likes to flow against the meta while still kicking ass (sometimes). I am not a fortnite player but nothing is more satisfying then getting into some good PvP action and schooling one of these noobies who thinks they are good because they bought stuff. I'm sure there is all kinds of cyber bullying, fortnite bullying and stuff. I must have been lucky but as a youth I had a couple real friends. We played halo all the day, i wasnt the best. I usually sucked compared to some buddies. But we still teamed up and had fun playing together. It might not be easy for a current 8/10 year old boy to do this, but there are a zillion fortnite players. Maybe he can just find some other people to play with. Or if you are 8 years old, maybe you shouldnt be playing online shooting games. I wasnt able to do the online shootie stuff (halo era) until I could afford my own shit and bought an xbox with my own money. Yeah all of my friends parents bought shit for them and they had xbox live, all of it. Paid runescape account. We were 10/11/12. Sure i was a little bit out of it, no body wanted to come to my house cause I didnt have the online games yet. I just had a daughter recently and want to get her playing games. Like other parents in this thread, i am not feeding them money to buy in game shit. I'm not going to give her an iphone/ipad at age 4 and be surprised when she spends $1,000+ on in game shit. I've heard this exact story from multiple co-workers. I usually just laugh it off but part of me is like, the fuck is yoru problem giving your kid an ipad and giving them free reign? This co-worker is a c suite guy making a shit ton of money. Likely doesnt have enough time to actually _be_ with his kids so you just get an ipad.
- tyfon 7y ago
  I bought a switch for my oldest daughter at 4, it's been great and has very good parental controls on an app. Lots of kid friendly games. My youngest is getting her own too in half a year when she turns 4.
lalaithion 7y ago
Not a free to play game, but I've now "saved up" 104 lootboxes in Overwatch. Most of my friends are baffled that I won't just open them.
asdff 7y ago
Nothing like getting cocky kills against people who dropped $50+ on fortnight while wearing the default skin. Thrive on their rage, let it fuel you.

bick_nyers 7y ago

Relevant: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinking https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twinking For me, twinking in World of Warcraft was locking my character's level and then finding the absolute best gear for that level. Due to how stat scaling is changed from expansion to expansion, you can find "breakpoints" where the stats from BiS (best-in-slot) gear for a level scale your stats significantly higher than what was supposed to be possible. An example of this was during the MoP expansion, level 80 twinks could use item level 409 gear (with level 80 being designed around ~272 level gear) and would get ludicrous stats, like 50% critical hit chances. This allowed level 80s to actually compete with level 90s, like when someone soloed a 10-man level 90 boss as a level 80: https://www.engadget.com/2013/01/09/level-80-paladin-solos-some-mogushan-vaults-bosses-gets-vengea/ https://www.engadget.com/2013/01/09/level-80-paladin-solos-s...

gameswithgo 7y ago

The difference is because the skins in fortnite/pubg don't do anything. They give you no advantage. So there is no negativity towards them. Also there is no way to get (most) of them without buying them.

shados 7y ago
Something still changed. League of Legends at its peak wasn't quite as popular as Fortnite, but it was still roughly in the same order of magnitude (at least last I checked), and while people went "oooooh!" at some of the fancier or rarer skins, no one gave a flying duck if you used the defaults. So something did happen. Could be as simple as a different target demographic, though.
- munchbunny 7y ago
  I don't think it's just the target demographic. I think this desire for self-expression was always there, but game producers/developers have only recently fully embraced the idea. I have gamer friends (~30 years old) who joke about "Fashion Destiny" (referring to the video game series) and so on, except that they clearly really do care about the cosmetics because the availability of certain cosmetic pieces will get them to go back into the game and grind out 50 hours of gameplay, or cough up $X for Overwatch loot boxes, or pre-order, or buy the battle pass, etc. It never gets to the point of bullying because we're 30 years old and we all carry guilt over the frivolity of dumping money into virtual cosmetics. But if you want a bunch of 30 year old men to talk about accessorizing like it's Sex and the City, just throw us into an in-game winter festival with cosmetic loot boxes. With Fortnite, I think there's a problem where the winner to loser ratio is so small in each round that win/loss and other performance metrics become meaningless, so there isn't some sort of reckoning in the form of the end-game scoreboard. With games I used to play (as opposed to the ones I play now), the shit talking mostly got settled when the other person outplayed you. Or vice versa. On the one hand I think the Fortnite dynamic helps to keep the game accessible, but on the other hand for lack of a clear direction (getting good at the game) players get a bit more cosmetic.