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This recent development in English law strikes me as inhuman. It turns the kissing of a sleeping lover into a violent sexual assault. Passion and spontaneity be

by 5040 7y ago

This recent development in English law strikes me as inhuman. It turns the kissing of a sleeping lover into a violent sexual assault. Passion and spontaneity become criminalized.

lawlessone 7y ago
>It turns the kissing of a sleeping lover into a violent sexual assault. Passion and spontaneity become criminalized. Right...
JauntyHatAngle 7y ago
Is there an incident of a kiss on a sleeping lover being prosecuted?
User23 7y ago
The observable goal of these policies is maximal license for women's sexuality and maximal suppression of men's sexuality. This isn't a normative statement, it's a descriptive one, so please don't take offense and if my description is incorrect then provide examples of, say, a woman being convicted of rape because she lied about being on birth control.
- ivarb 7y ago
  How is it suppressing the male sexuality? Do you honestly think it is a normal part of the male sexuality to have sex with unconcious women/men?
  - User23 7y ago
    Please try steel-manning instead of straw-manning. Can you think of a circumstance where a man waking his partner with sex is a consensual activity? Have you observed that in the vast majority of sexual liaisons it’s a man doing the approaching? Do you realize that many women like male sexuality and want to be seduced? Can you see how equating normal romantic actions within a relationship with raping an unconscious drunk is dishonest and oppressive? I can’t help observe that your implicit assumption that men are sexual predators. The need to speak out against that is the primary reason I’m willing to voice my observations on the subject.
- dang 7y ago
  This is over the line and breaks the HN guideline against taking threads further into generic flamewar. Please don't do that. This somewhat-specific flamewar is bad enough as it is. Also, please stop using HN for ideological battle. We've given you a ton of warnings about that already. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
dragonwriter 7y ago
> It turns the kissing of a sleeping lover into a violent sexual assault No, it doesn't.
dwild 7y ago
Yeah I know, the same way each time I touch someone in the street, I get arrested for violently assaulting them. I'm really tired of trying not to touch anyone. /s I know someone that was raped while not being conscious. She didn't want to have sex with that person. While trying to press charge, she found others persons that had similar experience with that guy. The cops told her tough luck, not to stay with people she didn't trust (it was a friend...) and they threaten her of making false accusation (the prosecutor herself seemed surprised of that and the cops angrily answered that she wouldn't be accused of that, luckily). The prosecutor has not enough proof to go further with it... there should have been at least someone else in that room that could testify. That's the current state of rape accusation. Pretty far from your "kissing of a sleeping lover" being criminalized.

by 5040 7y ago

This recent development in English law strikes me as inhuman. It turns the kissing of a sleeping lover into a violent sexual assault. Passion and spontaneity become criminalized.

lawlessone 7y ago

>It turns the kissing of a sleeping lover into a violent sexual assault. Passion and spontaneity become criminalized. Right...

JauntyHatAngle 7y ago

Is there an incident of a kiss on a sleeping lover being prosecuted?

User23 7y ago

The observable goal of these policies is maximal license for women's sexuality and maximal suppression of men's sexuality. This isn't a normative statement, it's a descriptive one, so please don't take offense and if my description is incorrect then provide examples of, say, a woman being convicted of rape because she lied about being on birth control.

ivarb 7y ago
How is it suppressing the male sexuality? Do you honestly think it is a normal part of the male sexuality to have sex with unconcious women/men?
- User23 7y ago
  Please try steel-manning instead of straw-manning. Can you think of a circumstance where a man waking his partner with sex is a consensual activity? Have you observed that in the vast majority of sexual liaisons it’s a man doing the approaching? Do you realize that many women like male sexuality and want to be seduced? Can you see how equating normal romantic actions within a relationship with raping an unconscious drunk is dishonest and oppressive? I can’t help observe that your implicit assumption that men are sexual predators. The need to speak out against that is the primary reason I’m willing to voice my observations on the subject.
dang 7y ago
This is over the line and breaks the HN guideline against taking threads further into generic flamewar. Please don't do that. This somewhat-specific flamewar is bad enough as it is. Also, please stop using HN for ideological battle. We've given you a ton of warnings about that already. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

dragonwriter 7y ago

> It turns the kissing of a sleeping lover into a violent sexual assault No, it doesn't.

dwild 7y ago

Yeah I know, the same way each time I touch someone in the street, I get arrested for violently assaulting them. I'm really tired of trying not to touch anyone. /s I know someone that was raped while not being conscious. She didn't want to have sex with that person. While trying to press charge, she found others persons that had similar experience with that guy. The cops told her tough luck, not to stay with people she didn't trust (it was a friend...) and they threaten her of making false accusation (the prosecutor herself seemed surprised of that and the cops angrily answered that she wouldn't be accused of that, luckily). The prosecutor has not enough proof to go further with it... there should have been at least someone else in that room that could testify. That's the current state of rape accusation. Pretty far from your "kissing of a sleeping lover" being criminalized.