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I'm pretty sure you shouldn't be washing up with soap in mountain lakes. Biodegradable doesn't mean it can't harm something before degrading. I find a rinse t

I'm pretty sure you shouldn't be washing up with soap in mountain lakes. Biodegradable doesn't mean it can't harm something before degrading. I find a rinse to be more than sufficient for most of my trail needs. If I need soap for some kind of washing I take some water out of the source and wash elsewhere.

c17r 7y ago
It's all-natural, organic, kosher, and vegan. Vegetable oil-based. They even say you can brush your teeth with it.
- anamexis 7y ago
  Unfortunately, none of those things imply that it is safe for wildlife in a mountain lake. Here's a good overview: https://grist.org/living/ask-umbra-is-it-ok-to-lather-up-in-the-lake-with-biodegradable-soap/ https://grist.org/living/ask-umbra-is-it-ok-to-lather-up-in-...
  - c17r 7y ago
    I'm well aware of what phosphorus and surfectants of your average soap can do but Dr. Bronner's has none of that. Here's the entire ingredients list: - Citric Acid - Mentha Arvensis (flowering plant in the mint family) - Organic Coconut Oil - Organic Fair Deal Hemp Oil - Organic Jojoba Oil - Organic Olive Oil - Organic Peppermint Oil - Potassium Hydroxide (AKA Saltwater soap) - Tocopherol (oils containing vitamin E) - Water
    - extrapickles 7y ago
      Some of those are toxic to fish and insects. The soap will still mess up the ecosystem in the lake if it doesn't have a good flow of water in and out of the lake. Jojoba oil is roughly 12% Eugenol, which is used to euthanize fish (other cheaper Eugenol oils are typically used though). Peppermint Oil is a pesticide (specifically the Menthol). Those were the only 2 I looked up, I suspect several of the others would imbalance the ecosystem too. Just because a product contains only natural ingredients that are safe for humans, doesn't mean its safe for use in small bodies of water.
    - semi-extrinsic 7y ago
      OK, when you mix that caustic potash (AKA Potassium Hydroxide) with vegetable fats, a chemical reaction called saponification occurs and you get surfactants. This is exactly how they made soap in the olden days. Fish are extremely sensitive to surfactants, as their skin is covered with a thin protective fatty membrane that gets dissolved. If you're still not convinced: go buy a goldfish, put a drop of this stuff in his bowl, and watch him die.
    - astura 7y ago
      All soaps have surfactants, it's literally what makes soap soap. Surfactant production is achieved by mixing an alkaline with fat to produce a chemical reaction. In this case potassium hydroxide is the alkaline and the vegetable oils are the fats. But even if that wasn't the case, at the very least, you shouldn't be introducing peppermint oil to aquatic ecosystems as its toxic to many animals.
- astura 7y ago
  None of that implies "does not disrupt aquatic ecosystems." Soap disrupts aquatic ecosystems.
- driverdan 7y ago
  > It's all-natural, organic, kosher, and vegan. Vegetable oil-based. None of those things means it's safe to put into a body of water. Leave no trace.

c17r 7y ago

It's all-natural, organic, kosher, and vegan. Vegetable oil-based. They even say you can brush your teeth with it.

anamexis 7y ago
Unfortunately, none of those things imply that it is safe for wildlife in a mountain lake. Here's a good overview: https://grist.org/living/ask-umbra-is-it-ok-to-lather-up-in-the-lake-with-biodegradable-soap/ https://grist.org/living/ask-umbra-is-it-ok-to-lather-up-in-...
- c17r 7y ago
  I'm well aware of what phosphorus and surfectants of your average soap can do but Dr. Bronner's has none of that. Here's the entire ingredients list: - Citric Acid - Mentha Arvensis (flowering plant in the mint family) - Organic Coconut Oil - Organic Fair Deal Hemp Oil - Organic Jojoba Oil - Organic Olive Oil - Organic Peppermint Oil - Potassium Hydroxide (AKA Saltwater soap) - Tocopherol (oils containing vitamin E) - Water
  - extrapickles 7y ago
    Some of those are toxic to fish and insects. The soap will still mess up the ecosystem in the lake if it doesn't have a good flow of water in and out of the lake. Jojoba oil is roughly 12% Eugenol, which is used to euthanize fish (other cheaper Eugenol oils are typically used though). Peppermint Oil is a pesticide (specifically the Menthol). Those were the only 2 I looked up, I suspect several of the others would imbalance the ecosystem too. Just because a product contains only natural ingredients that are safe for humans, doesn't mean its safe for use in small bodies of water.
  - semi-extrinsic 7y ago
    OK, when you mix that caustic potash (AKA Potassium Hydroxide) with vegetable fats, a chemical reaction called saponification occurs and you get surfactants. This is exactly how they made soap in the olden days. Fish are extremely sensitive to surfactants, as their skin is covered with a thin protective fatty membrane that gets dissolved. If you're still not convinced: go buy a goldfish, put a drop of this stuff in his bowl, and watch him die.
  - astura 7y ago
    All soaps have surfactants, it's literally what makes soap soap. Surfactant production is achieved by mixing an alkaline with fat to produce a chemical reaction. In this case potassium hydroxide is the alkaline and the vegetable oils are the fats. But even if that wasn't the case, at the very least, you shouldn't be introducing peppermint oil to aquatic ecosystems as its toxic to many animals.
astura 7y ago
None of that implies "does not disrupt aquatic ecosystems." Soap disrupts aquatic ecosystems.
driverdan 7y ago
> It's all-natural, organic, kosher, and vegan. Vegetable oil-based. None of those things means it's safe to put into a body of water. Leave no trace.